How much free-play at steering wheel?

Moderators: theelanman, dapinky, GeoffSmith, Dave Eds, DaveT, Elanlover, muley, Nige, Enright, nitroman, algirdas, Sy V, Specky, clemo

Re: How much free-play at steering wheel?

Postby Saltire » Wed 30.10.2019, 15:05

I recall seeing a display ad in either Classic and Sportscar or Practical Classics for a kit that enabled you to add power steering to your classic. It used an electric motor to provide the assistance. I’ll have a look back and see if I can find it

EDITED: I think it was this one,but a Google of electric steering brings up a number of options
Jonathan

1995 Elan S2 no 512, BRG/magnolia, last of 4 UK S2 to this spec
2017 BMW F48 X1 2.0D AWD (goes 21/11)
2019 Volvo XC40 (arrives 9/12)
User avatar
Saltire
God
 
Posts: 1378
Joined: Sun 05.04.2015, 22:27
Location: Left foot in Wiltshire, right foot in Gloucestershire, heart in Scotland

Re: How much free-play at steering wheel?

Postby Simon_P » Wed 30.10.2019, 16:44

If more assistance is required then it would probably be easier to ask a rack specialist if they could modify the existing rack.
I think you would be disappointed with ePAS with speed as the feedback - ours is proportional to the load applied at all speeds, less effort is required at higher speeds so it is so it doesn't need any compensation for speed..... the harder you try the more it helps.

The fact that a Corsa has power steering illustrates the issue.

Bern,
Self centring is a function of suspension geometry - the rack has almost no effect on self centring.
Simon_P
God
 
Posts: 1419
Joined: Fri 06.08.2004, 12:33
Location: Kent UK

Re: How much free-play at steering wheel?

Postby Bern » Wed 30.10.2019, 17:13

Simon_P wrote:Bern,
Self centring is a function of suspension geometry - the rack has almost no effect on self centring.


I realise that adding more caster would increase the self centering, but the car should be set up correctly.

The self centering is worse when the car is cold, and gets a bit better as it warms up. Writing this makes me realise it could be the fluid, though I think I have changed it! But that mat have been my van, I can't remember now!

My thinking was that if the rack is tight then it would affect the suspension geometry's attempts at centering.
'90 Elan SE
'05 Mazda MX5
'03 VW Transporter
'03 VW Lupo
'72 Land Rover 88
'80ish Kubota B5100E
User avatar
Bern
Fanatic
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Sat 21.05.2016, 19:16
Location: Wells, Somerset, UK

Re: How much free-play at steering wheel?

Postby dapinky » Wed 30.10.2019, 18:50

Just for the sake of it (with no great need to do anything about it) I have been looking into these things.....

... there are a hell of a lot of electric steering columns out there - and many kit car builders have been doing it for years.

The 'best' one to use is meant to be from the Vauxhall Agila, as it has the most compact motor.

The Corsa B is the one that has been fitted for the longest, and as such, has the most 'support'. It has the distinct advantage of a 3-phase 'assistance' which can be adjusted with a box of magic (can't be too much in it, as they sell for about £20) and then takes a speed input to switch seemlesly between the 'modes' - high assitance at <5mph, a chunk less at 5-20mph, nowt above that.

Personally, I like the 'simplicity' of the earlier system, as it takes a speed input from the ABS ........ via an amplifier relay.......... and just so happens to be exactly the same one as i have fitted to get the Cruise Control input 8) .

Not sure what would need to be at the 'bottom end' of the column (steering rack wise) - but it can't be that hard to find a rack which can be made to fit to the same mountings as the current rack (with some modification, probably), and then worry about the inner tie rods to track rod ends afterwards..... I expect a Corsa may well work - after all, our old Corsa had the same size wheels as an Elan (17" with 205/40 tyres) and to use bits from the same donor keeps it more likely that it'll all fit together.

As I have a brand new S2 rack in the garage I will have a look to see what differences (size-wise) there are between that and a Vauxhall item.
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually.....

go on - click this link - you know you want to!
User avatar
dapinky
LEC Administrator
 
Posts: 8491
Joined: Sun 15.10.2006, 12:54
Location: As far west as you can get in West Wales before you become Irish (Pembroke Dock).

Re: How much free-play at steering wheel?

Postby Bern » Thu 31.10.2019, 11:44

Looks like you've given it a lot of thought there Dave, and it all sounds good to me. As far as I can see getting a column that is around the correct length could be an issue and matching that to a chosen rack (that would need to have the pinion in the correct place to match up with the hole in the body, as well as the correct length), but I guess you could machine a longer column to your spec.

But as interesting as it sounds, I don't think it's for me, I simply haven't the time (and possibly not the skills).

I think my next step is to change the PAS fluid, I think I've some PAS flushing liquid somewhere in the garage so maybe I'll put that through first. I'm not expecting much, but it's got to be easier than changing the rack.

Incidentally, the play in the video is the same when the engine is running or not.
'90 Elan SE
'05 Mazda MX5
'03 VW Transporter
'03 VW Lupo
'72 Land Rover 88
'80ish Kubota B5100E
User avatar
Bern
Fanatic
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Sat 21.05.2016, 19:16
Location: Wells, Somerset, UK

Re: How much free-play at steering wheel?

Postby Tuga2112 » Mon 04.11.2019, 21:42

Bern wrote:A short video here:

Elan steering play

(it'll probably be up for an Oscar next year)


that is far more play than mine.
I have recently changed the U joint, and found that because i didnt tighten it enough i got some free play, you may need to investigate your Ujoint.

its also worth noting that in my experience. when i changed the U Joint the steering did started to feel a lot lighter than before i bought the car.
unfortunately your nowhere near me so i cant let you have a go at mine to compare.
1991 elan se
1991 elan se project
91 MR2 Turbo (import) project
94 Celica GT4 (Import)
94 4Runner
98 Celica SR

too many projects. not enough sunny days :(
User avatar
Tuga2112
God
 
Posts: 1222
Joined: Fri 12.09.2014, 22:54
Location: Walsall

Re: How much free-play at steering wheel?

Postby Bern » Tue 05.11.2019, 11:29

Tuga2112 wrote:
Bern wrote:A short video here:

Elan steering play

(it'll probably be up for an Oscar next year)


that is far more play than mine.
I have recently changed the U joint, and found that because i didnt tighten it enough i got some free play, you may need to investigate your Ujoint.

its also worth noting that in my experience. when i changed the U Joint the steering did started to feel a lot lighter than before i bought the car.
unfortunately your nowhere near me so i cant let you have a go at mine to compare.


Thanks, I replaced my UJ a couple of years ago, but I will check that it's all tightened up. And thanks for the offer, but yes that quite a distance!
'90 Elan SE
'05 Mazda MX5
'03 VW Transporter
'03 VW Lupo
'72 Land Rover 88
'80ish Kubota B5100E
User avatar
Bern
Fanatic
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Sat 21.05.2016, 19:16
Location: Wells, Somerset, UK

Previous

Return to Chassis & Steering

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest