Jacking Up the Car - Advice

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Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby Artaban » Fri 24.04.2015, 16:54

Not sure what to do or what to use.

This weekend, with the help of a friend, we are going to remove the rear suspension for a complete rebuild. I'll have to do this on the driveway as there is no room to manoeuvre in the garage. So I need to remove everything and still be able to get to the chassis for some POR15 treatment. I have heard that the jacking points are OK for a wheel change but not if you are going to leave the car sat on them for a week. I don't have any axel stands so I'll need to buy something but what do you suggest? Also where under the car should I place the supports so that its safe enough to get under and scrub away with the wire brush?

I've been looking through some of the pictures of peoples suspension rebuilds but I'm not sure how precarious the car is and if you can get at the chassis to apply the POR15 easily. Any advice welcome including any anti seize sprays you've found successful. If things get difficult and we have to bring out the angle grinder are there any bolts that are hard to get now?

Thanks in anticipation.

Andy
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Re: Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby rumplestiltskin » Fri 24.04.2015, 22:31

hi Andy I rebuilt my rear brakes and waxoyled over several weeks jacked up on the jacking points,without problems.
I asked on here a few questions and the jack points have a metal outrigger right along both sides of car the jack points are Allen bolted to these and can be removed if you had a need,open up the battery compartment ,shine a torch in the corner and you can see the metalwork ,the front is behind the carpet and a panel interior trin
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Re: Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby Fredjohn » Fri 24.04.2015, 22:51

I would suggest you buy a pair of axle stands: always safer than a jack and you can leave the car up on them for a while.

If you check out the jacking points on WikiLEC here, you will see 4 in total.

Lift the car with the rear outer point, then place the axle stand under the rear inner point, then do the other side. Leave all wheels on until car is safely rested on the two axle stands.

Once securely supported remove the wheels and work away to your hearts content, but leave the car in gear and put wedges/bricks around the front wheels just in case! I actually raised mine on 4 axle stands to bleed the brakes: it's a long process but with a pressurised bleed system, I just walked round the car opening/closing the bleed nipples until done. I'm sure 4 axle stands may not be "approved" but it worked for me.

Good luck with your jobs and keep us all up to date on progress.
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Re: Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby muley » Fri 24.04.2015, 23:07

Artaban wrote:Not sure what to do or what to use.

This weekend, with the help of a friend, we are going to remove the rear suspension for a complete rebuild. I'll have to do this on the driveway as there is no room to manoeuvre in the garage. So I need to remove everything and still be able to get to the chassis for some POR15 treatment. I have heard that the jacking points are OK for a wheel change but not if you are going to leave the car sat on them for a week. I don't have any axel stands so I'll need to buy something but what do you suggest? Also where under the car should I place the supports so that its safe enough to get under and scrub away with the wire brush?

I've been looking through some of the pictures of peoples suspension rebuilds but I'm not sure how precarious the car is and if you can get at the chassis to apply the POR15 easily. Any advice welcome including any anti seize sprays you've found successful. If things get difficult and we have to bring out the angle grinder are there any bolts that are hard to get now?

Thanks in anticipation.

Andy



Hi Andy

I strongly suggest you use axle stands - you could borrow my spare pair but you are quite a long distance away. Just put them under the jacking points with a short socket in between. Mine was up like that for a few months whilst I rebuilt my rear suspension / rust proofed. (I'm assuming you've got an SE by the way - an S2 has no apparent jacking points at the rear).

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Re: Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby Rusty Wishbone » Fri 24.04.2015, 23:15

So long as the sill jacking points are solid, there will be no problems supporting the car on them for as long as you like. If you are disassembling the rear suspension, I don't think you will have anywhere else to support the rear of the car.

Remember that you will need to undo the top links from inside the boot, so make sure it is accessible once lifted.

I need to do the same job at some stage. I did it on my first Elan, and it stayed in the air for about 3 months.
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Re: Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby andy b » Sat 25.04.2015, 10:16

Dont mess about get 4 axle stands or 2 ramps for the front and axle stand the back you will be safer and much better access. it will be fine on the jacking points if they are still ok have a look at my thread on top rear wishbone just done what you want to do. Get the car up as far as pos. I found it easier with the exhaust off and out of the way. just a tip remove the rear silencer from the boot just unbolt the hanger from inside. When you strip the top w/bone make a little simple jig to find the bolt centres before striping so it gets put back the same.enjoy
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Re: Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby Artaban » Sat 25.04.2015, 12:18

Thanks for all the advice, really helpful and a few things I hadn't considered. Its one of those jobs I've got mixed feelings about. Lovely when its done but it could be a real pain to do it. Will look at the recommended thread on the top wishbone and good idea about the jig as I was wondering if I needed to find someone to set up the geometry after it was all done. Will try and avoid project creep and I don't want it on stands for a couple of months while the best of the weather passes by.

I'll let you know how it goes.

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Re: Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby Tuga2112 » Sun 31.05.2015, 09:09

Artaban wrote: Any advice welcome including any anti seize sprays you've found successful.


I use ATF mixed with acetone 50/50
have a read though this www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/a6064/wd-40-vs-the-world-of-lubricants/

I Havent had an issue with seized screws/bolts ever since, i have taken out the clam shell ,bonnet, replaced the exhaust first intersection (the one that joins to the downpipe) messed around with ball joints, only had issues with 1 bolt in the exhaust. (many other parts were taken out before doing the mix)

I also suggest a dispenser for the mix. take a look at this guy's solution (its what i use, only downside is that you need to refill the bottle with air rather often)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doLPFPeJ6JE

Remember acetone and ATF do not mix, so shaking the bottle is essential,

Also. in this topic, i have been thinking of instead of acetone using ATF + engine flush 90/10 ratio, basically the idea is that the engine flush will make the ATF thinner and does mix in unlike the acetone. I havent tried it yet but its in the plan for when my current can runs dry.
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Re: Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby Elanlover » Sun 31.05.2015, 13:30

Tuga2112 wrote:
Artaban wrote: Any advice welcome including any anti seize sprays you've found successful.


I use ATF mixed with acetone 50/50
have a read though this www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/a6064/wd-40-vs-the-world-of-lubricants/


Whatever you use to loosen the bolts I'd coat them with an anti seize compound before reinstalling them (I do this for EVERY screw or bolt I remove). Loctite makes several compounds that do the job and will make it easier to remove them in the future if need be.
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Re: Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby Tuga2112 » Sun 31.05.2015, 14:39

:agree:

personally i put some more ATF or petroleum jelly on the bolts, but that's cus im a cheapskate!
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Re: Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby chrisP » Thu 04.06.2015, 13:26

I would have a look at the online parts manuals and get replacement nuts and bolts ordered before you start, (most are 8.8 bolts) if the suspension has not been off before a nut splitter or an angle grinder may be of use and speed up the dis-assembly. I would also recommend having the parts media blasted to achieve a better and long lasting result. Oh and a can of Dinitrol cavity wax might be handy as well.

Finally loosely tighten all bolts that run through a bush while the car is in the air and then torque them up when the car is down on a level surface (that way you don't pretension the bushes)

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Re: Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby Artaban » Fri 05.06.2015, 20:59

Really appreciate the advice. The rear suspension came off without a hitch. Rear wishbones looked very sad and a definite MOT failure. So with everything off I got the various bits blasted and painted. I already had some stainless wishbones in stock with new bushes all round. The top links aren't obsolete but neither are they available from anyone either even though SJ's list them they can't get them. Thankfully mine could be rescued and hadn't rotted away. New bushes all round, new springs and dampers, new nuts and bolts, POR15 on the chassis after having cleaned everything I could possibly reach. I did look at the parts list and got all the bolts for the front and the back suspension and I put it all back with Copperslip. Will Dinitrol later when its up on a proper ramp. I did torque the bolts once it was on the ground again. That was the easy bit. Then I went to the front...........what a *uc*ing *ba**ard of a *u** of a ****** ****** ******

Yes I experienced a little difficulty. Should have used explosive and just repaired the collateral damage. Anyway its all off, blasted, repainted and re-bushed apart from one raft bush which is obsolete which I only found out when I had removed the old bush. Thankfully Steve at SJ's to the rescue again and he is having some remade and they should be ready next week. Prongeron was knackered as the car had obviously been jacked up by Nanderthal Motor Services despite the two large stickers saying don't do it. Apollo to the rescue and I bought his from eBay. Bumper off for new rubber at base.

Now those of you who have done this will know its fatal to poke around the car whilst you are waiting for bits to come back from the blasters and painters etc. Ooooh that looks a little dull, shouldn't it be shiny! Out comes the radiator (new Coolexperts one arrived today); radiator support frame looking a bit sorry for itself and its now of being welded and powder coated. More POR15. Horns look a bit rusty and aren't they meant to be on a bracket instead of sitting in red dust. New horns and Steve is making up a bracket in stainless as I have no idea what it should look like. More Por15. Now I'm looking at the charge cooler. Should I or shouldn't I? No I'll replace some bolts with shiny stainless ones instead. I'd swear the charge cooler is calling me to remove it. The madness subsides momentarily and I go inside for a beer.

Going to remove the sump and clean it up inside and out. Fix the oil leak on the engine and check all the hoses etc. Anything else I should do whilst everything is out? Cambelt and water pump recently done.
Remove me...remove me. Blast its the charge cooler again. Have to go!
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Re: Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby dapinky » Fri 05.06.2015, 21:46

Artaban wrote:.......and re-bushed apart from one raft bush which is obsolete which I only found out when I had removed the old bush........



Andy,

Have a read of this (long) post - it'll tell you how to deal with the obsolete bush!
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Re: Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby Enright » Fri 05.06.2015, 23:04

Sorry to read about your woes Andy, but on the other hand very nicely put and congrats on doing a fantastic job.
Hope you'll be posting pics here as inspiration later... 8)
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Re: Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby lolaman » Fri 10.03.2017, 17:16

I had a lovely shiny new 2 post lift installed in my garage yesterday.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-POST-LIFT-C ... Swqu9U2ie4


I want to lift my Elan SE to have good look underneath. Any advice as to the best areas to place the lifting pads would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby Fredjohn » Fri 10.03.2017, 19:02

lolaman wrote:I had a lovely shiny new 2 post lift installed in my garage yesterday.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-POST-LIFT-C ... Swqu9U2ie4


I want to lift my Elan SE to have good look underneath. Any advice as to the best areas to place the lifting pads would be greatly appreciated.


I would suggest you look at WikiLEC in the section Jacking Points

Or check the workshop manual which says the same thing. My only concern would be the kerb weight distribution, which is about 66% fr /34% rear. Make sure you put some extra weight in the boot so it doesn't fall off!!! Just watch the you-tube video of an Elise doing exactly that!!!!

PS just noticed WikiLEC is working again....a big THANK YOU to whoever sorted it!!! :D :D :D
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Re: Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby lotusflasherman » Fri 10.03.2017, 19:25

Lucky you. Glad you've got room for it. I use a scissor lift that gets Elan quite high and positioned correctly allows it to seesaw as required to get the end I want to work on much higher.
Stands flat against the wall when not being used too. (The lift, not the Elan.. :lol: )

scissor lift.jpg


If you have an SE you'll have 4 jacking points (S2 didn't have rear pair). I use a pile of rubber jack saddle pads / 'ice hockey pucks' with holes drilled in top ones to engage the conical jacking point and a 133cm strip of steel channel to bridge between them. (think the jacking points are 124cm apart). I then lift the channel on the scissor jack plinth, though it bends a bit it doesn't touch the fibreglass sill, quite. The front to rear centre of balance of the Elan is just behind the front jacking points so mine is sitting on the scissor jack nose heavy - but I can lift it to push the axle stand under. The scissor jack is there so I can move the axle stand to replace the alternator.

Looking at the ebay link it looks like the arms of yours will extend to pick the car up on front and rear jacking points BUT IF YOU PUSHED UP THE REAR THERE IS A REAL DANGER IT WILL FALL OFF THE FRONT with the balance point being so close to the front jacking points. I suggest you put something very heavy in the boot, lift it just a few inches and see if it rocks much. I think if I was working under it I may have a couple of 4x4 fence posts handy to use like pit-props :lol:

Good luck... and don't drop it... :wink:
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Re: Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby Dave Eds » Fri 10.03.2017, 20:11

Phil that looks so much better than the last picture I saw but not as good as the current colour combo.

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Re: Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby Saltire » Fri 10.03.2017, 21:02

lotusflasherman wrote:Lucky you. Glad you've got room for it. I use a scissor lift that gets Elan quite high and positioned correctly allows it to seesaw as required to get the end I want to work on much higher.
Stands flat against the wall when not being used too.


Pardon me for asking, but where did you get it from?
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Re: Jacking Up the Car - Advice

Postby Rusty Wishbone » Fri 10.03.2017, 23:31

I am lucky enough to have a scissor lift (something like this) , so I always lift on the four sill lifting points. I am happy to say that I have never identified a risk of the car tipping forward, so I wouldn't worry about that, even if you disassemble the rear suspension.

I have a different opinion from others here about lifting on the bolts. I believe that you should lift on the bolts, not around them. My opinion comes from looking at the engineering drawings where I think that the strength is greatest through the bolts. Of course, I might be wrong, but I have never had a problem. I use four metal blocks under the lifting points. Wide rubber blocks will spread the load away from the bolt, and bear on the fibreglass which might get damaged.
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