PAS Pump Pipe Snapped

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PAS Pump Pipe Snapped

Postby roy666 » Sun 08.10.2017, 21:38

Hi Guys - just driving along with out a care in the world and then the Lotus God of Bother creeps up on you. Steering went very strange then extremely stiff. Stopped straight away to see the last of the PAS fluid gushing out from under the engine. The small outlet pipe at the top of the PAS pump that goes along the side of the can belt cover had snapped clean off and the fluid was pouring out. Fortunately, I was not far from home - so i did finish the journey with a stiff rack. Qs: what's the best way to fix this?; get a second hand pump? or get the pipe soldered/braised back on? Is it damaging to the steering rack to drive the car with no fluid. I need to get it to the garage somehow,... about 15 miles through country roads...cheers Mike
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Re: PAS Pump Pipe Snapped

Postby clemo » Sun 08.10.2017, 21:47

Oh roy ..

Sorry to hear of your problem , though luckily you got to it in the nick of time .
Limping it home should be fine but driving it without could knock out the power steering ram ( from what understand ) .
But to drive it 15 miles as long as all the fluid hasn't all run out and is still lubricated i would think would be alright , though not recommended of course .

Though much wiser people will come along and advise otherwise .
Jim Clark S2 on the way . The one with the Yellow spoke wheels .
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Re: PAS Pump Pipe Snapped

Postby roy666 » Mon 09.10.2017, 07:03

Thanks Clemo - think its gonna have to be a AA ride! But fixing it.. can one get new PAS pumps??
M
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Re: PAS Pump Pipe Snapped

Postby Rambo » Mon 09.10.2017, 08:08

The first approach I would try would be to contact your local branch of Pirtek to see if they could do anything. I have found them very good in the past for the PAS pipes

As to getting the car to the garage, I would use AA if you have the "at home" insurance
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Re: PAS Pump Pipe Snapped

Postby Kipperozzy » Wed 01.11.2017, 14:10

Hi Roy, one of my PAS pipes started leaking a few weeks ago , the return from the rack to the reservoir where the rubber joins the steel pipe so thankfully not full pressure so I got home before I ran out of fluid .
These were difficult to remove from the rack as the flare nut was seized onto the pipe but got them off eventually.
I bought a new set from the power steering store and fitted them, refilled with new fluid and added some of the fluid that revives rack seals then bled the system.
The fitting that bolts onto the pump is brazed onto the pipe , and is held on with a nut and hollow bolt with O rings fitted around the bolt unlike a banjo bolt and is difficult to access but can be done.
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Re: PAS Pump Pipe Snapped

Postby Kipperozzy » Wed 01.11.2017, 18:46

I mean a hollow stud not bolt
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Re: PAS Pump Pipe Snapped

Postby roy666 » Thu 02.11.2017, 08:29

Thanks Kipper... I got the pipe welded back on to the cap... 'silver brazed'.. apparently much stronger... so the old boy in workshops told me. Now having persevered with the nut to tighten it as much as I can I'm still getting a small leakage of fluid out from under the cap. Not sure I can tighten it up much more. There is no seal to put under it.. is there? R
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Re: PAS Pump Pipe Snapped

Postby Kipperozzy » Thu 02.11.2017, 14:10

Hi Mike, there are O rings in each of the 2 grooves in the hollow stud, before I removed mine I assumed that there would be copper washers or dowty seals at the top and bottom but there weren't any so I refitted with the O rings and tightened up with no leaks .i checked other threads on the forum and also the manual and it's only these O rings . The nut on mine was very tight, but I don't know why it needs to be horsed up as the seal is between the side of the fitting and the hollow stud.Maybe your O rings need to be replaced or the "Lucas oil power steering stop leak" fluid I added to the dextron fluid helped mine .
The O rings are show on the Bell & Colville website , note the PAS pump detail is under the engine details
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Re: PAS Pump Pipe Snapped

Postby roy666 » Sun 11.02.2018, 15:42

Hi Kipper (and all the Gurus)... this is a slightly urgent. Putting some new seals on the spiggot on the PAS pump... not sure where the lower seal should sit! On the first lip just below the spiggot opening (hole) or below that lip right on the very base of the spiggot component. It could fit on the lip and also on the base, although it is a lot tighter on the base below the lip... its 2 mm bigger (I would say). Any ideas?.. and I can't seem to find a more detailed diagram of the PAS pump that shows the actual position of the seals. the top one is easy.. bottom one is the issue.

thanks M
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Re: PAS Pump Pipe Snapped

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sun 11.02.2018, 17:11

Picture please. I will pull a pump and see if I can identify your answer.
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Re: PAS Pump Pipe Snapped

Postby Kipperozzy » Thu 01.03.2018, 23:03

Hi Roy, sorry I missed your last post till now.
The bottom O ring is 12 mm x 2.5 mm and it fits in the groove (it would get squashed if at the bottom) and 10 X 2 mm for the top one.

I bought an O ring kit off eBay and used new ones, unfortunately it leaked (I was practising project creep so didn't notice until later). Anyway I removed the pipe fitting and the lower O ring (which fits in the groove ) had been nipped by the banjo. I had a look at the banjo in the new hose and the old hose and the old one has a chamfer on the lower outer opening that the new one doesn't.
I changed them but it still leaked. Before I decided to grind a chamfer I thought I would try a Dowty seal bottom and top, but its still leaking, so its onto plan C , and use new O rings and new freshly annealed copper washers.
I dont want to grind the fitting in case I get swarf into the oil.

Anyway, now my new radiator is freshly installed in its newly POR'd frame I will attempt plan C as soon as the "beast from the East" lets me into the lockup.

Hopefully I'll try this weekend and let you know the results
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Re: PAS Pump Pipe Snapped

Postby Kipperozzy » Sun 04.03.2018, 19:41

Hi Roy, i've finally managed to stop the PAS fluid leak from the pump banjo.
I replaced the O rings and a fitted copper washer (16x22x1.6) over the O ring at the bottom and a copper washer (14 X20X1.2)between the nut and banjo.
It only increased the height by about 3 mm due to the washers so the nut covers the thread and I put some thread seal on for good measure.
I ran the car for about half an hour as I was rebleeding my new radiator, and no leaks :D
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Re: PAS Pump Pipe Snapped

Postby roy666 » Fri 06.04.2018, 19:50

Thanks Kipper... been away and things have moved on a bit. I bought a brand new hose from Lotus Bits (and all the seals) and handed it off to a local MG garage who I trust; ... should be straight forward.. right? However, the Techy believes the banjo mounting on the end of the hose (the pump end) is different and he thinks would not sit on the pump spiggot properly. I've already spoken to LotusBits (Tom) and they are convinced it should work. I'm going to pop over tomorrow and see for myself. But your washer strategy seems sound. I'll post some pics and let you know. cheers Mike
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Re: PAS Pump Pipe Snapped

Postby roy666 » Sun 15.04.2018, 21:24

Hi Kipper - finally got the hose on, although with some major issues. I picked it up from LotusBits but it proved to be to smaller a bore for the bottom fit and too bigger bore for the top fit. Anyway, LotusBits sorted me out in the end. I didn't put a washer on the bottom seal, I just left that as it shoudl be, but it started to leak through the top at the nut. So put a washer on as you suggested and used PTF tape around the banjo thread. Bingo!.. no problem.. and 3 days later it's still ok. What a faff.. and thanks for all the assist. M
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