Front Spoiler Lip Retainer Clamp Plates

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Re: Front Spoiler Lip Retainer Clamp Plates

Postby theelanman » Tue 11.06.2019, 20:35

Where's the hijack........?
This is a discussion about the topic noted at the top.....
?????
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Re: Front Spoiler Lip Retainer Clamp Plates

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Tue 11.06.2019, 20:46

No problem.

why jump on a post offering some to those that don't have the tools or ability to fabricate their own?

START YOUR OWN TOPIC providing the drawings and techniques you used to make your own. Oh, yeah you got yours from another offering.
Last edited by Brit-Car-Nut on Wed 12.06.2019, 12:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Front Spoiler Lip Retainer Clamp Plates

Postby theelanman » Tue 11.06.2019, 21:07

If you're directing all those questions and pointing a finger at me......erm.I didn't get mine from anywhere.......I did the drawings from sketches provided by others.........
Therefore you had an option to either buy made ones and fixings.......or take the drawing and do your own.......

Not quite sure what the problem is........
This is a forum........???? Where we discuss stuff too.....
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Re: Front Spoiler Lip Retainer Clamp Plates

Postby dapinky » Wed 12.06.2019, 11:48

I've now put down my Moderators hat as worn on a different thread, and have especially placed my Admin hat on my head....

Gents, there are a few different issues here which I shall address as i see fit (and if you don't like it, well - tough!)

First, I don't see a 'Hijack' here as that would suggest going waaaay off topic.

BUT, I can see why John may think that it could be.

Clearly, there are few 'new' ideas in the world of Elan 'improvements', and many ideas are recycled from previous work done by others - often improved upon (Gear cables are a good case in point) and generally benefit the whole community by becoming 'avallable' to anyone who wishes to purchase them.

Personally, I am a believer in making anything I develop availlable to the community on a (to coin a phrase) 'Free License' whereby anyone is able to copy, develop and use things for themselves - but I have never operated as any form of business, just as an enthusiast.

In the distant past, LEC members (notably Dave H, LGM, Lotus-F1, Kutching and others - including he-who-shall-not-be-named) did a lot of engineering work on some items, and made them availlable either as a 'sale' item, a 'group buy' or publishing the drawings.... always clearly marked as such.

There has been an awful lot of work in the background to try and assimilate as many of these 'designs' under the LEC umbrella to ensure their future availlability, but trying to ascertain who (if anyone) actually OWNS the rights to any of them is hard when drawings have been passed over from person to person for ongoing work/production/development, often for no payment.

So far, we (and that really means 'Clemo') have spoken with many of the original designers and all are in favour of a centralised non-profit 'depository' from which items can be held for future work.

That said, we are also aware that there are people out there who are operating a business (in whatever form that takes - from a total income to a few quid for beer money), and without them we would all be in trouble. So we have no intention to approach anyone who is clearly operating as such to try and obtain any of their designs - that wouldn't be right.

Then there is the 'gre(a)y' area - a direct copy of an item which isn't availlable...... where does that fit? (a simple case I can use without upsetting anyone is the Polyurethane suspension bushes as currently stocked by SJ's & SWL....... OE stuff becomes unavaillable from Lotus, I get hold of the original specs and company who made them, they ain't interested in making any more, no-one cares if I can get some made elsewhere, and no-one gets sued for copyright issues. I then spend a lot of time with a bloke I know (no names, as I don't want people going to him directly for reasons I will state) and have used to develop bushes for Triumphs over the years. I supply the original specs, and the metal bits they need to fit into, he designs the bushes to perform as close to OE spec as possible, and pulls a price out of thin air depending on if people want 1 set or 100 sets..... we all understand that production is cheap, development is dear.

I'm not interested in becoming a business, and have my own set for free (I've never claimed otherwise!) - the developer speaks with SJ's & SWL asking if they will retail them.... both agree on the condition that they are the 'sole/joint suppliers'.... hence, I don't want you trying to go direct, as it wouldn't be fair on anyone, and may even get to the point that no-one wants to even bother again (sound familiar???).

In the meantime, whenever someone asks on the Forum for "where can I get.....?", there are often many suggestions - some cheaper than others, some better than others, some that need a bit of work, some that fit straight out of the box etc etc.

As a community, I support this, and feel that alternatives are good for everyone.

Clearly, in the case of this thread, John is prepared to make (or get made) an item and offer them for sale - it is never advertised as a 'Group Buy', so it is an assumed presumption that it is a 'business transaction'.... and there is no problem at all with that. We all have to eat and put a roof over our heads.

As most (all?) of the people interested are in the USA, then it seems like a great oportunity for those on the wrong side of the Pond, whilst not so great for those in the UK by the time postage is factored in..... but they are there if you want them, and are happy to pay the costs.

At the same time, it wouldn't (purely in MY opinion) be in the 'LEC spirit' to fail to draw attention to the fact that there are alternatives already on the forum - which anyone can find if they look.... and if someone wishes to go to the effort of getting some made, then they will need to find the drawings, find a fabricator, invest the cash, get the orders, post the items out, hope to cover costs, and keep a few sets on the shelf if not (or pay a lot for a one-off manufacture!).

If the likes of John, Wayne etc didn't do things like this - then who would??

Then we'd all be a bit stuffed.......(except in the case of no-one doing these plates I'd probably just end up with a bag of stainless penny washers and M5 nuts/bolts - which will do the job, but be nowhere near as good).
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually.....

go on - click this link - you know you want to!
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Re: Front Spoiler Lip Retainer Clamp Plates

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Wed 12.06.2019, 13:05

This was not a "business" project, just sharing the set-up costs that will be charged to make them.

I did NOT use any LEC drawings, I provided a new set to the manufacturer and explained what I expected from said manufacturer.

They are basically at my cost if I buy 25 sets.

I have already paid for that minimum quantity and was looking to off-set the investment by sharing.

I will offer a few sets to Dave Bean Engineering so he has a few for those that don't know about me.

I will put the others on eBay or something.

I was going to have the same company make some stainless "door window scraper" backing plates to fit the generic strips available - as per Toby's You Tube video.
I don't think burning off the toxic rubber bits is a healthy suggestion.
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Re: Front Spoiler Lip Retainer Clamp Plates

Postby wayne » Sun 16.06.2019, 00:02

Dave Pink. I can totally see where your ideas lie. This is a forum to help out all M100 owners. It sure has helped ne out over the years.

I accidentally ended up in the business side of making obsolete parts. I refused to pay DVB hundreds of pounds for a door handle escutcheon. and so my journey started. My main idea is keep my car on the road.

Looking back at the thing that got me started... The door handle Escutcheons. Main Idea was I made my investment back. It was a few thousand dollars and on my wages, its a lot of money and a big risk, which is why it took me so long to commit to buy them.

Some of the other projects lost money, some made money. I try to put prices in the ball bark where I will make and not loose. But not charge excessive prices for things. It's a gamble. where do you put a price on something when its no longer available. (other than scrap yards selling at extortionate prices).

I end up paying several thousands of pounds for projects when I have no idea if anyone will support them.

When John does the same thing and puts up his own money to support it. I would have expected a better response. I'm not in the US but will buy a set from him. My current set use a penny washer and look bad.

Not sure if you call it a business or people trying to keep their cars on the road. You decide.

I do things to keep my car on the road in the condition that I want it. I have great respect for BCN as I belive that his main concern is the same as me.

If we work purely on a group bye process and say buy 25 sets of something and then its gone.... it's not going to benefit anyone who is not in the group bye. Mass producing something benefits everyone for years. It may not make any money in the initial run, but may do in further production.

How many of us would put us several thousand pounds for something that sells for£30? I personally could have bought a car for the money I have paid out for projects that some day I hoped to get my money back from. Some did, some didn't.

I'm sure that its the same with BCN. Believe me, its not easy to work on a project.

I can see the problems that BCN is going through. He has probably done hours of research and then to be undermined and told of other options, I wouldn't blame him if he just dropped the whole idea. Ive been in the same situation with roof seals. I spent thousands of pounds on them and then dropped the whole idea.

Dave Pink. IF you can get the plans for all all of the Elan parts and have the LEC remake them, that would be awesome. I'd but the obsolete parts. If you don't have the money for the obsolete parts that I need, I may be able to help out.

Maybe next projects will be funded by BoB Brown, jeemy type people where they want you to pay in advance and then not deliver.
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