Peugeot Problem

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Peugeot Problem

Postby Rusty Wishbone » Wed 06.09.2017, 22:33

With the Elan running fine, the Peugeot that I bought for my daughter to learn to drive in has gone kaput. Advice would be welcome ahead of the Haynes workshop manual arriving.

Car: Peugeot 207 1.4 8v, 67k miles

Problem: The vehicle was running nicely until it started losing power, and then broke down. Initially, I could get it to start, but as soon as I touched the throttle, it died.Now it won't start at all. Fault codes P1336 Crank Range/cam sensor & P0131 Sensor circuit low voltage bank 1 sensor are present. I have replaced the coil pack, but the car still won't start. Spark plugs are very pale, and one of them is much paler than the others. I can hear the fuel pump when I turn the ignition on.

The head gasket is suspect. While the oil is free of mayonnaise, the coolant tank does have mayo in it. Compression test looks uneven: 138, 128, 128, 145 psi.

Some of the wiring connecting the coil pack, throttle body etc has been taped up at some point in the past, so that might indicate an historic electrical problem. The throttle body makes a high pitched whine - but maybe they all do that.

So, what should I do next?
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Re: Peugeot Problem

Postby Jamie N » Thu 07.09.2017, 09:54

These cars are beset with problems, worked on loads of them and would honestly say they are one of the most troublesome cars on the road (or more usually on a ramp). First thing I would do on your one is check the timing is still set, if that's ok change the cam sensor, they are about 20 quid, they are well known for going bad and can cause multiple problems when they do.

The only way you will really get to bottom of DTC's on these is to get it hooked up to Peugeot Planet diagnostics , one single trouble code can generate a host of other issues and only PP can properly diagnose it, quite expensive software but most areas will have someone who will come to you ( Peugeot Central website has a list of guys in the UK that will come to your place for a small fee), or you could take it to the Dealer and get truly robbed.

Head gasket's on them are another very common issue so it may well be on the way out.

My best advice is get it running and get rid of it pronto (and buy her a Honda :D ) , I can guarantee it will cause you never ending grief I'm afraid, you will get this issue resolved then another one will arrive soon after, they should have called this car the "Peugeot Never ending beeping and Anti Pollution warning Model". :D .

Oh... and the ESP / ASR warning is rife on them as well, when they go they cant be repaired, you have to remove the whole ABS unit and it will cost you a fortune to replace, that also requires it to be hooked into PP to properly erase the DTC or it continues to bleep and show the warning, generic code readers cant do it.

Nasty cars. :?
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Re: Peugeot Problem

Postby Rusty Wishbone » Thu 07.09.2017, 21:25

Ah... Yes, there was an anti pollution warning too...

Thanks for your very helpful advice. It sounds like everything can go wrong with this car, and probably will. A shame really, because it is very pretty, I think, and I had been impressed with its comfort and well laid out interior. One thing I have noticed is how spacious the engine bay is. It is probably quite easy to work on - which is just as well.
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Re: Peugeot Problem

Postby Rusty Wishbone » Tue 03.10.2017, 22:34

The good news is that the head gasket is OK.

The bad news is that the garage is now fitting a new ECU. And there is no guarantee that is the problem!
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Re: Peugeot Problem

Postby Jamie N » Wed 04.10.2017, 10:16

Rusty Wishbone wrote:The good news is that the head gasket is OK.

The bad news is that the garage is now fitting a new ECU. And there is no guarantee that is the problem!


Oh dear :shock: , I hope they really know their way around Pugs, a new virgin ECU on its own wont fix the problem if the error codes are being caused by malfunctioning components, they will just show up straight away on the new ECU.

If it is the ECU (very expensive brand new) that is faulty then the chances are it has had the usual problem, coolant leaking from the electric thermostat runs through the loom and into the ECU, this scenario is very common on 207's and often has required the loom to be replaced as well.

If they are fitting a 2nd hand unit then this requires the matched BSI and transponder.

Just watch what you are spending because you could end up throwing a whole hill of cash at it and still have problems, consider these cars are not worth a lot now and you might be better off cutting your losses at an early stage.

I hope you get it resolved, keep us updated :wink: .
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Re: Peugeot Problem

Postby lotusflasherman » Wed 04.10.2017, 11:19

Rusty Wishbone wrote:The good news is that the head gasket is OK.

The bad news is that the garage is now fitting a new ECU. And there is no guarantee that is the problem!


:wtf: That is ridiculous ! :banghead: You said "Fault codes P1336 Crank Range/cam sensor" so that should be replaced first. If it hasn't got data on where the crank is it won't know when to fire so won't start ..
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Re: Peugeot Problem

Postby Rusty Wishbone » Thu 05.10.2017, 00:07

The garage has been even more successful than me with collecting fault codes - they have scores of them. And the ignition is 35 degrees retarded, but they are getting sensible signals from the crank sensor.

Ho Hum.

I must say, though, that I do trust this independent garage. That doesn't mean that they are right, of course.
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Re: Peugeot Problem

Postby epipete » Thu 12.10.2017, 13:52

What's the latest news?

I'm interested because I've often owned Pugs in the past, my daughter currently has a 308 which last week developed the dreaded depollution warning light, the web seems very short on knowledge as to what of many issues it might be.
You know more than you think you know, just as you know less than you want to know. ... Oscar Wilde
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Re: Peugeot Problem

Postby Giniw » Thu 12.10.2017, 15:28

epipete > what is the engine?
I found a few things here, I don't know if it applies http://www.forum-auto.com/marques/Peuge ... t44137.htm
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Re: Peugeot Problem

Postby Rusty Wishbone » Thu 12.10.2017, 22:59

A new ECU went in this week, and I got a call from the garage today while on a train in The Hague to say that it is ready for collection. The important thing is that the garage went through comprehensive checks to rule out almost everything else first - the ECU costs £1k on its own, so you need to have discounted as many other things as possible before you go down that route. The ECU can be sent off for testing, but that is not reliable - my old one came back without a fault being found.

There are several things that can cause the dreaded depollution warning light.
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Re: Peugeot Problem

Postby Jamie N » Fri 13.10.2017, 16:29

Not sure I am reading this right.. It looks like you have spent 1000 quid on a new ECU but there were no faults found with your old one?.

I would be asking the garage for the receipt for the new one if you don't already have it. I have heard of this story so many times, garages saying its the ECU when its something much simpler and fleecing customers for more than the car is worth, that scenario is rife, I just hope not in this case.

Did the garage actually have the proper and absolutely essential Peugeot diagnostics? (Peugeot Planet Lexia 3) .
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Re: Peugeot Problem

Postby Rambo » Fri 13.10.2017, 20:07

Jamie N wrote:Not sure I am reading this right.. It looks like you have spent 1000 quid on a new ECU but there were no faults found with your old one?.

I would be asking the garage for the receipt for the new one if you don't already have it. I have heard of this story so many times, garages saying its the ECU when its something much simpler and fleecing customers for more than the car is worth, that scenario is rife, I just hope not in this case.

Did the garage actually have the proper and absolutely essential Peugeot diagnostics? (Peugeot Planet Lexia 3) .


Me too. Sounds like you've been fed a bit of a yarn (fleeced :? ) and forced to pay for something that may not be strictly necessary ?????
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Re: Peugeot Problem

Postby epipete » Sat 14.10.2017, 08:18

Giniw

Thanks for the above, I shall brush up on my French and take a look :?

Pete
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Re: Peugeot Problem

Postby lotusflasherman » Sat 14.10.2017, 10:24

epipete wrote:Giniw

Thanks for the above, I shall brush up on my French and take a look :?

Pete


My French is OK but I struggle with any technical and legal words - never did those at school. I use Chrome as a browser where a right-click and select Translate to English makes life much easier .. :-D

Getting back to your problem - I'd be checking the Oxygen / Lambda sensor as the most likely cause. When engine is warm, with Ideal Mixture it produces about 450 millivolts, Lean Mixture about 200mV and Rich Mixture 800mV -it's on the signal wire to tell the ECU how to adjust fuelling. Cheap multimeters have a Millivolt range and quite easy to check whether voltage in the correct range is on the signal wire. Usual failure mode is no voltage at all being produced.
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Re: Peugeot Problem

Postby lotusflasherman » Sat 14.10.2017, 11:11

Rusty Wishbone wrote:The garage has been even more successful than me with collecting fault codes - they have scores of them. And the ignition is 35 degrees retarded, but they are getting sensible signals from the crank sensor.


Contradiction there ... a sensible signal from the crank sensor would be correctly timed ..

Have your mechanics explained how the ignition has become retarded by 35 degrees ?? a loose crank sensor wouldn't change it that much and the ECU generally changes the amount of 'advance', with further info from the Knock Sensor, but ignition is never past TDC. I'd have been looking at camshaft / crankshaft timing first to make sure hasn't jumped ...

So what's the current position ?
When it's all 'done and dusted' I suggest you ask them to put the old ECU back in and try it. If it's fine they can have the new one back and refund £1k ..
Phil

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Re: Peugeot Problem

Postby Giniw » Sat 14.10.2017, 16:23

epipete wrote:Giniw

Thanks for the above, I shall brush up on my French and take a look :?

Pete

Not sure about that page in particular, it's just one of the first I read. Anyway, please don't hesitate to ask for help when you are unsure about a translation!
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