F1 formula one chat/stuff

[chris.t]

MPX echos what a lot of racing pundits have been saying. However does anyone else think that this, down to the wire thing, was one big fix to bump up F1 popularity???

[Rambo]

I wonder what the late, great Murray Walker (the best ever motorsport commentator) and Charlie Whiting (former F1 FIA Director) would have made of this total fiasco

[Dave Eds]

A Netflix fix....

[HJ2]

I hear Lewis Hamilton has gone back to Musical Youth, he couldn't pass the Dutchie on the left hand side.

Hahahaha!

No complaints here folks!

[Rambo]

I wonder how much Michael Masi was paid by the Red Bullshitters

[tb10]

I did think the negotiations re the 3rd restart start at the Saudi Arabian GP when it was “agreed” between Masi and RB that Ocon would be P1, Hamilton P2 and Verstappen, P3 and ONLY agreed if Hamilton WAS NOT on pole…

Mediation mid-race? Hmmmm…..

Is there that much discretion for the Race Director now?

[Blaster]

Just read why Perez retired, RB short fueled him so he was faster but would never had been able to finish the race.

[RonR]

Just read why Perez retired, RB short fueled him so he was faster but would never had been able to finish the race.

Interesting.... So RB weren't interested in going for the Constructors title?

[tb10]

I don’t think retiring on lap 55/58 was due to short fuelling… Had there been a problem with the car, and he’d stopped on track in the wrong place, then the race would not have resumed and it would have been race / Championship over.

[tb10]

and there is no appeal now:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59681314

[clemo]

If only Masi had have thrown a red flag. We could have had the greatest end to this season. Both dive in and change tyres , sprint banzi to the end. Both Red bull and Mercedes would have been happy with that decision . Instead Masi plays F1 God which was always going cause friction.
No matter how many rules there are the last page will always say - all of the above is to the discretion of the race controller . Though i do believe that the late great Charlie Whiting would not have pulled such a daft stunt.
I continued to watch for another 4 hours until the protest had been heard . It left a very sour taste . The winner should have been spraying rose water and singing "we are the champions" instead Max was sat on a plastic chair awaiting the outcome. This is not how it should end.
Max's championship will always be tainted by how he won it and needs to win next year to cement his greatness but if Lewis decides to leave then he won't get the chance and this will be a loss for F1 even if you are not a Lewis fan.
Mercedes sell cars so should be happy with winning the constructors championship , Red Bull make knarly show off types that do things a great speed or jump out of things and fall to the ground at immense speed. So they too should be happy . Unfortunately Masi and the FIA stole the limelight . A win for Netflix but not the real fan. When Masi says just give me a minute please you know he's out of his depth . In motorsport terms a minute is an entire year. they work on thousands of a second not minutes . Changes will be made of course , but re-active insted of pro active is a little bit too much to late for me. I watch from a Thursday drivers conference till close on Sunday. It's all about the build of anticipation , small tweeks , upgrades , tenths made over an entire season. Not 1 person playing F1 god for the good of the ratings . I think they powers that be have to be very cautious not to pull another stunt like that or the hardcore fans will be replaced with short stint sprint race netflix watchers.

Just my take on it of course .

[RonR]

Agree with a lot of the above,

However the cynic in me would go further, the creeping (all right then - galloping) commercialisation of a "Sport" which sees it's future in engaging with "The Youth" means that a young world champion would serve the rights holders better than one of the older guys. I wonder if Mr Masi had a radio link with them? Perhaps the relationship between the FIA and commercial organisation needs looking at?

Meanwhile we have a champion in the M Shumacher mould who appears to think he has a god-given right to win and is willing to endanger others to do it, egged on by a team manager who I must say I've lost all respect for over the course of this season - crying wolf at any opportunity. (see what I did there?)
A great example to set for the target audience!

BTW I only watch the C4 highlights nowadays, not for any F1 reason but because I don't want to put a single penny into the hands of the Dirty Digger or his family.

[/rant]

[Blaster]

As I see it Masi had 3 options that would have followed the rules, only one would have finished with racing on the last lap.

1. Red flag, but that would have been the end of the race as to many laps had been completed.

2. Safety car then come in on the last lap without releasing any cars as this is an option under the rules. This would have been a one lap race with Max having to overtake the back markers.

3. Safety car to let all the cars un-lap then come in the lap after all cars had passed this would have meant the race re started at the chequered flag.

All three options would have meant LH winning.

[rip]

As I see it Masi had 3 options that would have followed the rules, only one would have finished with racing on the last lap.

1. Red flag, but that would have been the end of the race as to many laps had been completed.

We had a late red flag in Baku & a 2 lap sprint to finish.
I dislike tyre changes during VSC, SC or red flag conditions. They screw with race results unfairly. Banning tyre changes behind SC/VSC would be an easy way to fix this. It appears that many like the randomness of it, but it seems to be a very artificial way of spicing things up. A sport shouldn't need this & hopefully the new aero rules in 2022 will help.
Rain spices things up too, but weather is something none have any control over & we all have to deal with.

F1 must be the only sport where I have seen an 'override all' rule invoked. That is crazy. SC procedures are rubbish & I am sure nobody would like to see a race end that way (or as in Spa, an entire race behind the SC). They should use those incidents to develop better procedures which actually work, put those in the rules & take out the ridiculous override clause. All teams will know where they stand & it should reduce the need for the race director & stewards to make judgment calls.

Track limits have also been a joke for years but have become more of an issue this season, right from the opener in Bahrain: They told all drivers it is ok to go wide after turn 4. It was halfway through the race that they decided to change this, after Hamilton had made up loads of time by going wide (or Verstappen had lost time by not going wide, it depends on your point of view), then when Verstappen goes wide later & passes, he gets told to give the position back.
We saw Norris run Perez out of room in Austria & get a penalty for it. Verstappen & Hamilton have done this to each other several times through the season without penalty.
The worst inconsistency was Verstappen running Hamilton wide in Brazil & even leave the track himself in doing so but getting no penalty, When he repeats this in Saudi, he gets penalised. It was almost a carbon copy of the move. After having no penalty or even an investigation in Brazil, I completely understand Verstappen's annoyance with being penalised in Saudi. If he had been penalised in Brazil, he would have had no reason for complaint in Saudi.
At the first corner in Abu Dhabi, Hamilton didn't even bother slowing for the chicane. The season's earlier decisions indicated that Verstappen was fine to run Hamilton out of room there. If the move was ok, then how can Verstappen possibly remain in 2nd place?
The collision in Silverstone was potentially similar to many others; the difference is that when Hamilton had been on the outside, he backed of to remain in the race. Verstappen never got penalised for any of the times Hamilton had to back off.
Clearer rules need to be made for what is & is not acceptable. My own view on track limits & giving each other room is firstly that a car may only put all 4 wheels off the circuit to avoid a collision, anywhere. They also have the right to the racing line but not exaggerated lines to block. If this means that a marker of some kind has to be placed after the exit for each turn to mark a position before which the car must not be at the edge of a the track, then surely this can be done, with paint if necessary?
The penalty for a track limit infringement could be a penalty loop which the drivers must drive around within a lap of being informed of the penalty. If that adds on 5 seconds, then it will stop the nonsense of building a gap before the end of the race to neutralise any time penalty.
Another issue was Leclerc's crash in Q3 at Monaco. I don't think this was deliberate but it did stop anyone else from beating his pole time, allowing him to keep it. We saw Schumacher abuse this a few years ago & he got a discretionary penalty for it. Take away the discretion & make it a mandatory penalty for causing a yellow or red flag in qualy.
The 'giving the place back' incident in Saudi can also be avoided. When doing this, the driver can be made to drive at one side of the track. Verstappen was just of centre but veering to the other side.

These issues can all be made a lot clearer by looking at how the rules currently deal with them then updating them to get the issues covered.
There are loopholes in many sports but F1 seems to have the attitude of "there will always be loopholes so why even bother trying to sort them". Many could be clarified with some rule changes.

[Rambo]

There is justice after all. Finally, Michael Masi, former F1 Director, has been booted out

Let's see whether last year's Abu Dhabi result will be overturned. Personally, I doubt it, as they are spineless, but then again they declared there was no chance if sacking Masi and look what's happened

Watch this space. It's going to get messy

[Saltire]

Well, I think Masi going is a step forward, but it strikes me that replacing him with (being slightly cynical) two people and a committee is hardly a step forward. They never needed that when Charlie was alive.

It would be an improvement if the FIA clearly set out a terms of reference for the Race Director role. What are the scope and limits of responsibility? What are the reporting lines? How - and when - can the teams communicate with him/her? What sort of debriefings will take place after races? What back office support is needed? Then interview potential candidates against those ToR.

But that’s a rational approach, and totally ignores the politics, so it’ll never happen in F1

[TorqueHorse]

Let's see whether last year's Abu Dhabi result will be overturned. Personally, I doubt it...

Unfortunately, I think you're right, there. Why would they change it when now they have their cake and can eat it too? They can say they did something, while keeping the outcome they wanted. Money's flowing just fine for them, and now they have a come-back drama to bait people again for this year.

And totally agree with you too Saltire. If one is bad, three must be better, right?

[Jan135]

Charles Leclerc. Mostly because it's Ferrari. Love Ferrari since Michael Schumacher's time.