water pump - do they fail?

Alternator, waterpump, A/C, sensors, CAS, etc.

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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby Dave Eds » Wed 15.03.2017, 01:18

Brit-Car-Nut wrote:Sorry, hit wrong key


I won't.
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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby HJ2 » Wed 15.03.2017, 08:10

... did you? :bowdown:
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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby isuzuowner » Thu 16.03.2017, 01:29

Simon_P wrote:
isuzuowner wrote:Now, I realize you really, really, really want a gotcha moment for your own personal reasons, but you are in fact falsely accusing me of spreading false information while you, yourself, spread false information.


Frankly I don't give a sh*t and think you are a prat!

The fact that I posted 2 original water pumps seems to be lost on you!


Well sir, you can explain how and why your fellow Elan owner is having trouble installing a water pump that is dimensionaly identical to the image you posted from the kelsport.com website without cutting the lower edge.
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=19704&start=20#p327760
Image

And then provide details such as:
If you are the original owner of your car?
Has the oil pump on that car ever been replaced with a superseded oil pump?
If the car has the original oil pump, was it modified to fit around the newer water pump?

Because your fellow Elan owners are the ones reporting that the water pump you cite as an example of the original, has to have metal removed to fit onto their Elans.
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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby Dave Eds » Thu 16.03.2017, 08:43

clemo wrote:Where did i put me popcorn ...



Better get some more..... :wink:
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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby rip » Thu 16.03.2017, 09:28

Dave Eds wrote:
clemo wrote:Where did i put me popcorn ...



Better get some more..... :wink:


What's the record for the shortest membership before being kicked off for winding up existing members?
Our new friend must be in danger of beating it?
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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby Steve A » Thu 16.03.2017, 09:55

rip wrote:
Dave Eds wrote:
clemo wrote:Where did i put me popcorn ...



Better get some more..... :wink:


What's the record for the shortest membership before being kicked off for winding up existing members?
Our new friend must be in danger of beating it?

Come back Jackonicko all is forgiven :roll: :lol:
"If everything is under control, you are going too slow."
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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby dapinky » Thu 16.03.2017, 12:02

rip wrote:What's the record for the shortest membership before being kicked off for winding up existing members?
Our new friend must be in danger of beating it?


I'm sorry if anyone is following this thread and looking for good information from some posters (not directed at the older posts :wink: )....

..... however, (partly because of this thread, partly because of the 'altenator' thread, and 'brake' thread) "Isuzuowner" will not be in a possition to reply to any questions for 7 days. And maybe even beyond that point.....

....I appologise to those who enjoy a good sit-down-with-a-cuppa to follow such stuff, but even a patient man like me has limits (and if he had been like that when I was young and feisty he wouldn't have got anywhere near the grace he has been shown).
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go on - click this link - you know you want to!
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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby tb10 » Thu 16.03.2017, 13:29

Oi Dave :poke: I've just spend £1.99 on some popcorn :evil:

I'll bring it for you to have tonight :lol:

See you later.

regards

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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby rip » Thu 16.03.2017, 14:31

Steve A wrote:Come back Jackonicko all is forgiven :roll: :lol:

Did you ever meet him? I did & I couldn't believe it was the same person. He had a knack of winding people up with his keyboard. :?
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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby dapinky » Thu 16.03.2017, 15:10

rip wrote:
Steve A wrote:Come back Jackonicko all is forgiven :roll: :lol:

Did you ever meet him? I did & I couldn't believe it was the same person. He had a knack of winding people up with his keyboard. :?


A few of us went to an evening drive that he organised aound the area he lived - as you say, a totally different bloke than the impression he could give with the typed word...
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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby Steve A » Thu 16.03.2017, 17:47

rip wrote:
Steve A wrote:Come back Jackonicko all is forgiven :roll: :lol:

Did you ever meet him? I did & I couldn't believe it was the same person. He had a knack of winding people up with his keyboard. :?


Yes he introduced himself at one of the M1 meeting points on the way to Donington, I was quiet taken aback :shock: butter wouldn't melt
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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby Simon_P » Thu 16.03.2017, 18:11

A couple of dodgy pattern parts 25 years after the event does not a summer make.

I refer the honorable gentleman to the answer I gave just a moment ago
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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby isuzuowner » Sat 25.03.2017, 02:16

Simon_P wrote:A couple of dodgy pattern parts 25 years after the event does not a summer make.

I refer the honorable gentleman to the answer I gave just a moment ago


I recommend that you contact the manufacturer and Rock Auto.
Tell them that the part does not fit your Lotus Elan without modification.
Their reply will be:
"We do not list that part as fitting a Lotus Elan. That part was not made to fit a Lotus Elan. None of our customers who bought that part for the car it was made to fit have, ever complained about it 'not fitting'."

Chances are that you will ignore them too.
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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby Rambo » Sat 25.03.2017, 08:08

My experiences with RockAuto on about 5 separate occasions have been without fault and exemplary.

Without fail they have listened to my questions, answered all the queries, gone the extra mile in phoning me up from the States to explain why they had only shifted 2 water pumps instead of the 3 ordered, and when the 3rd one ordered was the wrong pump and not the Airtex one they said keep that pump and we'll send you the correct one with all taxes and postage paid
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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby HJ2 » Sat 25.03.2017, 09:24

To actually gather some real life data in this post concerning fitment of the pump (MY pump on MY car):

* The engine is OEM
* The head is OEM
* The oil pump is OEM
* All brackets are OEM
* No damage on steel -or other structures.
* The dimensions of the flange + pattern of the holes is identical to the OEM pump
* The inner geometry is identical to the OEM pump (i don't speak of the vanes here)
* The wall thickness looks identical on flange and edges

It looks to me that it is only the outer geometry that is different: rounded off in the corners in stead off a 45 deg. flat(ish) part in the casting (so NOT machined btw...)
The fact that there are pumps with an additinal machined surface in the area where i had the trouble, means a couple of things to me as an amateur:

1. Apparently this is a known problem with other models as well, as the Elan is never in the listing of compatible cars with these pumps, but the problem area of some pumps is allready machined so it fits the Elan as well. The casting is additionally machined to correct this.
2. The casting of the rounded off pump housing has more 'flesh' in the corners than the 45 deg. chamfered one (this is the very cause of the interference fitting) so there is enough flesh to grind or mill away a small flat part without causing a structural accident waiting to happen or worse: a leak.

A. buy pump
B. Old style? Use as is
c. Interference? grind off the corner so it fits.

The whole purpose of reporting this on LEC is that people are aware this is even possible, because I was not, and it took me a bloody extra cam belt job to find out!
Now go out and drive your Elans, or if you don't have one already, go out and buy one and drive it! next week there will be an early summer 8) 20 deg (Celsius that is) on Monday! 8) :burnout:
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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby Simon_P » Sat 25.03.2017, 11:16

Isuzuowner,
And they would say exactly the same about your pump. Which nobody involved on this site has ever seen or heard of.

Much as I would like to, I haven't ignored you, I have disagreed with you.
I actually find it quite interesting that there was a similar part used by Isuzu, and that Isuzu fitted an earlier version of the Isuzu Engine to Isuzu passenger cars but that doesn't mean it was fitted by Lotus to Lotus passenger cars for which there was a different engine code, and you have provided no evidence to link the two - This is a Lotus not an Isuzu!
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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby tigerdog » Sat 08.04.2017, 19:58

I just ordered a water pump from RockAuto for Smaug's timing belt replacement and it was pure $hite. Flanges were so far off, it wouldn't even bolt into place. Chucked it and sourced a different one locally. I'd say the Dayco belt kit cited elsewhere is great, the RockAuto water pump is a bit dodgy.
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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby HJ2 » Sat 08.04.2017, 20:02

Was it incorrect dimensions of the flange, or the problem I described?
(As I thought I had a faulty flange initially...) :poke:
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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby tomatcbl » Sun 03.09.2017, 16:46

So I can confirm water pumps fail - luckily mine failed on the driveway and is simply leaking fluid. But while contemplating the change - what else should be changed?
Alternator belt
PS belt
Cambelt
Tensioners

What else while everything is in bit.

What part numbers have people had success with - don't see a need to mill something.
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Re: water pump - do they fail?

Postby donsladek » Sun 03.09.2017, 17:30

tigerdog wrote:I just ordered a water pump from RockAuto for Smaug's timing belt replacement and it was pure $hite. Flanges were so far off, it wouldn't even bolt into place. Chucked it and sourced a different one locally. I'd say the Dayco belt kit cited elsewhere is great, the RockAuto water pump is a bit dodgy.


Do you recall what brand of water pump did not fit? Typically RockAuto sells multiple options...
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