Rattling doors

[GoM100Go]

My doors both rattle horribly when the windows are down. The windows lift fine, albeit slow. But raise and lower. When they are lowered and a door is slammed it sounds like the window is just laying inside the door unsecured I fear a good slim with break the windows. Has anyone rebuild / re-secured their doors. I just received my new window out seals from pmi and hoped someone could advise in what to tighten. I have removed the door skins and tightened every screw and bold visible and still bad rattle. They don't rattle to much while driving even in the worse of roads, but a minimum slam and Thanks for all and help.

-James

[Pascal]

Hello,

i think you should read some topics using the word ' butterfly ' in this forum, it may explain a part of your trouble.

Pascal

[Jeemy]

I will respond properly to your pm when i am in front of a computer next. Lining the doors with dynamat superlite is something i am considering but wondering about hinge strength.

[MattDon]

from the few elans ive had id suggest the hinges arnt great and id resist add much wieght to the doors.

[Jeemy]

I hope once I get the car to the new unit, which HAS to be today/tonight, I've got these hubs to test fit, that I'll be able to work much more efficiently. Leave the door open all night if I want to without worrying about rain, take it off completely if I want.

The only other option is soft insulation. This could interfere with the performance of the window and I need to examine exactly how close it runs to the door at all points on its travel. Everyones rattles are going to be different and every bolt/joint/etc must be examined. I've just ordered a full set of brushes, guides etc for the rebuilding of the door skins, and am already adding speakers to the mix, which may be lighter than the originals, I don't know. I doubt it somehow. So I guess looking at strengthening the hinges is also something that must be done.

[Brit-Car-Nut]

The only way to solve rattling from inside the door is to methodically track down what is out of tolerance.

Masking the sound with insulation is not a smart choice.

Something is broken, worn out or missing. You are looking for lateral motion, not vertical. When the window is fully up or down it is under pressure and thus can't move as easily and you won't find the cause easily. Placing the window 1 inch from bottom is probably the best position and then you need to examine the guides, followers, rollers and channel rubber and felt. Something is missing or broken.

[Jeemy]

My rattle is simply on closing the door. No reassuring thud, a plasticy rattle. I therefore hope that by solidifying and deadening the panels, I'll obtain a more pleasing thump; they also will need this to handle the SPL of the speakers.

I haven't looked into how I will mount the speakers but I will certainly create wooden baffles to give them a solid mounting and fix these to the door itself rather than the cards to improve the mounting.

I think the felt brushes, butterfly and the adjustable brackets are a good place to start for James' issue. For me the starting point is going to be examining the hinges carefully. Somebody a long time ago mentioned the cotter pins (if I have that right) for the door strap are unobtanium and suggested a workaround which is in the early stages of my rebuild thread.

If appropriate I will insert rubber washers on all the bolts too to prevent working loose or rattling and generally deaden all the parts that move or strain against fibreglass on a door slam (of course a gentle shut will be all it receives from me, but passengers are a different matter!).

[Brit-Car-Nut]

Lotus used the same design on their hinges that GM uses on most of their cars. The bushes A100B6058F are still available for £1.82 each and the pins are B100B0080F are £7.41 each.

Like other US doors, the actual door is very heavy due to the armour plate inside and the bushes take a beating. If you get movement at the hinge pins, look at the bushes and pins first as they are usually what wear out.

The "sleeve pin" at the door strap A100B6020F is obsolete but you can use a simple clevis pin and cotter pin to replace it. No need to use a bolt (You could get a shouldered bolt and cut off the threads and drill a cotter hole if you can't find a clevis pin but that is too much work...

When closing the door the glass will move fore/aft as well as in out in the tracks so any deficiency in the tracks, rollers, nylon guides or limit stops will allow it to "hammer" as it stops it's motion. I would think a full tear-down, examination, replacement of parts needed and a good lubrication would resolve noises of those types.

A "hollow" sound might mean the weather protection covers between the door panel and the door have been compromised and the sealer and pins should be replaced/repaired.

Also look at the latch mechanism to make sure it isn't moving around when put under pressure.

[inkitin]

James

Since buying my Elan, about 7 years ago, my driver's door has suffered the exact same problem as yours. It was only two or three months ago that I had occasion to go into the doors for some other reasons and at the same time managed to sort of "cure" the problem. I say sort of, because the rattling when the window is down is far less than it was but hasn't entirely gone, so I think there are other things I need to revisit, probably next year. Just like I've been doing for the past few years, I expect you have been winding the window down only so far as it just pokes out of the door to hold the glass in place.

What I found was this. If you look at the photo below you will see a number of round holes near the top of the door. Three of these holes, which are about a third of the way along the door, form a sort of grouping of three. If you look directly under and very slightly to the left of the middle hole you can see a fuzzy goldish blob with what looks like a feint stain running down from it. That is an almost horizontal upside down bolt head and is used to adjust in and out a pad that pushes against the window glass holding it in position. On my car and I almost missed it as it is somewhat hidden, this bolt had loosened off and allowed the pad to be pushed back by the window glass and therefore was not holding the glass steady when down. It was a ten second job to push the pad back against the glass and then tighten the bolt.

On your car, you can actually see this pad without dismantling the door. Wind your window right down as far as it will go. Then shine a torch down into the door through the window seals and around that position along the door and inboard of the glass you can see the pad.

Hope this helps.

DoorPanelRemoval13.jpg

[Jeemy]

Thats the exact adjustable bracket I was talking about, it should have a short piece of brush felt adhered to it.

I had to remove/spin out of place to remove the weather seal and when I did, the brush just fell off. The glue has perished over the last 20 years…

As soon as I did this, the window operation became extremely erratic. I think the window has to be held at some kind of level of tension by this bracket to perform in the outer channels correctly.

Again, as soon as I loosened the outer channel at the back end of the door, it got even worse, and the window got stuck in the runnings. These 3 items need to be pretty well adjusted to hold the window properly and if the brush pads are missing its never going to work.

I was really pleased when I bought my car, my windows worked perfectly (one of few things that did), apart from dipping the idle speed if operated at traffic lights. 2 tiny adjustments and they were virtually unworkable. It really is a very "fine-tuned" system.

[inkitin]

Thats the exact adjustable bracket I was talking about, it should have a short piece of brush felt adhered to it.

Yup, that's the exact little devil I was referring to.

[Jeemy]

I've done as suggested by John and ordered 3 sets of brush - 2 for the long strips, and a third spare piece for these positioning brackets. There will be tons left if anybody wants any.

[Peter_W]

Early on in my Elan ownership I was showing it to an acquaintance who owned a shop that worked on high end European cars. When I shut the door he commented that he never understood why people think it’s necessary to slam car doors shut – he explained that it wasn’t necessary in order to engage the latch, and it was hard on the door/window/hinges/etc. At the time I hadn’t thought of myself as slamming the door – I just closed it like I had always closed car doors. Ever since then I’ve closed the Elan doors softly – just a slight nudge for the last few inches of travel does it.

[epipete]

I recall being told off as a child, in the mid 60's, for 'slamming' the car door, me Dad shouting 'Oi, careful, that's a coach built door!' He was quite taken with his new Triumph 1300.

Bit more critically, I think that you might have to remove the glass in order to replace the pads, so it is quite an undertaking.

[GoM100Go]

Thank you for the advise guys, I will be going on fall break from teaching in a week and hope to do as much work as possible on the elan during those two week off from work. I received my window seals from PMI and hope to install them while trying to settle my window rattles. I will post how it goes. Thanks again.

-James