Fibreglass Sills

[M100TURBOFR]

Hi
Can the underside door sills be removed easily (naturally without breaking them)? Photos attached.

[M100TURBOFR]

Sorry but the photos don't appear to have been attached. Anyway it's the sill from front wheel right back to rear wheel.

[dapinky]

The sills are all part of the single 'body tub' molding on the M100. As the shell was made by an injection moulding process, not a resin/matting lay-up method (like the earlier Elan/Europa cars) it isn't easy to just remove/replace parts.

Obviously, as it's a composite structure, it can be cut out and then grafted back (or replaced with new) - but not simple to do, and not sure why you would wish to do so anyway, if it is undamaged.

There are steel reinfocement panels bonded into the resin as well, and if you are wanting to get at these and repair/replace them, then the best way is to do it from inside the car and repairing the GRP afterwards.

[M100TURBOFR]

Thanks Dave. I thought that it was indeed an integral part of the body.
The A-Panel had obviously been repaired by a previous owner (no slots cut out to push the A-Panel in at the bottom). The two bolts at the bottom had been secured in the sill with fibre glass along with the A-Panel itself, therefore forming a solid bond. The only way to separate was to force the panel off (it eventually came away without any damage) but the two bolts came away from the sill and made a big hole in the sill at the front. I presume it'll repair with glass fibre but I'll have to reanchor the bolts in the sill.
David

[Simon_P]

I think you can get at it from the inside which would make a straight forward repair.

If you want to cut out sections of the sill there is a a whole section in the manual, but I suspect you would be making more work.

What size is the hole?

[HJ2]

pics please!

Without pics ... it sounds like you can epoxy the nuts back in.

[M100TURBOFR]

Thank you all for advice and comments. However, I tried to post the photos yesterday but to no avail. Could the format be too big? Would a PM work. Otherwise I could email them. PM me with your address.
HJ2 by "epoxy them in" I presume you mean epoxy resin and glass fibre.

[HJ2]

Here you go David:

I use http://www.tinypic for this.
Dimensions of the gap would help in focusing on a solution

[M100TURBOFR]

Thank you for attending to the photos Henk. Damage is roughly 7 mm wide (sill width) by 13 mm long. The repair would involve reanchoring the two bolts at the bottom of the A-Post panel (question is during or after repair)?
All advice welcome.
David

[dapinky]

Thank you all for advice and comments. However, I tried to post the photos yesterday but to no avail. Could the format be too big? Would a PM work. Otherwise I could email them. PM me with your address.
HJ2 by "epoxy them in" I presume you mean epoxy resin and glass fibre.

David, I did get the email, but thought it may be better to reply here so other people can see if my thoughts make sense and offer alternative ideas......

.... First, you mention that there were bolts in the fibreglass when you managed to get the old 'A' panel off - it sounds to me like someone has bodged the area previously as nothing should be bonded into the sill there.

The 'A' panel has a threaded stud (or even 2 of them) sticking out horizontally (or is that perpendicularly?) at the top edge - these locate through holes in the bodywork and require very thin tripple-jointed fingers to get the M10 flanged nut on behind the top hinge - the one into the wheelarch is far easier to get at.

The bottom edge should have a lip along its inner bit with 2 slots cut into it. These 2 slots should align (as best as anything on an Elan aligns!) with 2 fixings on the top edge of the sill (where your hole is!). I have heard people mention all sorts of different type of fixings being used, but I have only ever used/seen rubber well nuts (M6 thread, 12mm or 13mm hole in bodywork).

Anywy - that is clearly of no use to you until the hole is fixed, so it needs some repair. It appears that the 'old' fixings have torn out - this is both good and bad news - the good news being that torn fibreglass is far easier to bond new stuff onto as it has rough flaky edges. The bad news being that it can be harder to keep the shape of the material during repair....

I'd go for a bit of a hybrid type repair - first, cut out any really flaky bits so that you have a reasonably solid area remaining around the hole. Then clean it all out with a Hoover (or other vacuum cleaner) or blow with compressed air. Mix up a small amount of resin and brush it around the inside of the hole, then push some matting onto it to give straight(ish) edges - dont worry about trying to get it looking right at this stage - just solid and supportive. Add more resin and then (before it sets fully - probably about 10 minutes after application whilst the resin is a bit jellified) - trim the areas back with a pair of scissors. This should leave a reasonably solid 'hole' (can you get a solid hole???). Then just add more small pieces of resin/matting - working it to the rough shape with your fingers (preferably wearing gloves) to the inside, so you end up with a much smaller hole and the sill pretty much as it should be. Eventually you will end up with a hole that you can just get your fingers in. At that point, I would use a thin aluminium plate to cover the hole and bond it in with fibreglass (but you can just use matting). Onced the hole is 'closed over' you will need to build up the thickness of the material, and shape it to the right profile - you can always finish off with filler if you need to, but as it won't be seen (hopefully!) can be done with fibreglass resin.

Once it has all set, it should look like a solid repair (more importantly, it should actually be a solid repair!).

Then it is 'just' a case of drilling 2 holes through the new material and dropping well-nuts into the holes before refitting the 'A' panel.... realistically, you may be repairing the flange/lip on the panel and then getting it all to fit before actually fitting it.

[HJ2]

[GeoffSmith]

How about adding a small aluminium plate with two holes for the well nuts already drilled. Just small enough to be able to drop it into the hole at a jaunty angle but large enough to sit below the good bodywork when squared up and held in position by a loop of wire through the well nut holes. Probably worth roughing up or drilling some small holes around the edge to provide a good key then proceed as per Dave's suggestion.

[M100TURBOFR]

As usual, good advice and help from fellow members (Henk, Dave, Geoff) - (Geoff still awaiting your reply re matter concerning Spain) - so I'll just have to get on with it. As you say Dave, it won't be seen after repair. Is this what you mean by a rubber well nut? Could the metal threaded fixture also do the trick? Will revert back at a later date.
Thanks David - France

[Brit-Car-Nut]

The original nut was A075W3034Z - a Jack Nut because the lip where it attaches is lower and being all metal, it lasts longer.

jacknut.jpg

This could be used with a thin sheet of aluminum to make the repair.

[dapinky]

David,
The rubber one is what I have seen/used.

John,
I accept that the (OE) metal ones are what they specified at the factory - but I haven't seen any still in use, so can't comment on the fact that they should last longer.....

Geoff,
The method of fitting the plate as you describe is one I would go for (if there is enough flat material to pull against it)..... or even a longer piece which can be drilled through in the corners and held with pop rivets whilst it is bonded (or tightened up). Maybe even strengthening the lower lip with an angled piece bonded on to the 'A' panel.

[Brit-Car-Nut]

David,
The rubber one is what I have seen/used.

John,
I accept that the (OE) metal ones are what they specified at the factory - but I haven't seen any still in use, so can't comment on the fact that they should last longer.....

I tested with rubber well nuts but found they increased the gap at the bottom of the A-Panel and I didn't like that.

I finally used the jack nuts when I repaired my sills. I honestly don't remember how I slipped the aluminum piece inside the sill, but I remember making a few smaller holes in it so I could manipulate it with some hooks and lowering it down while I squirted adhesive on it and then held it up to the sill while it dried. Then, I drilled the holes to the correct size and installed the jack nut. When it came time to install the bolts and large washer, I used some anti-seize on the bolts so they didn't rust again. I would probably use stainless if I had to work on the area again.

[M100TURBOFR]

Hi. To gain better access for repair work, it would be preferable to take the door off. However, I damned if I can find the harness connector. The manual states (point 2) [From inside each end of the facia, release the two door harness connectors and feed them out through the body hole with the grommet]. Is this "famous" connector behind the bonnet pull lever or....... Cannot find it. Thanks David

[dapinky]

David,

Undoubtably the best way is to remove the door - but it isn't always an easy job to get it back on again!

You need to find the large connector block (there may be 2 on the drivers side!).... if you sit in the drivers seat and put your hand up just behind the dashboard right by the bonnet release lever, you will feel the wiring loom and then the block(s). They are about 4-6" in from the end.

Once they are unplugged, you need to feed the blocks out throught he side of the car - which is where it gets more awkward as there are 2 skins of fibreglass to go through (both with large rubber grommets which come out with the wires and door) - the hard bit being that the 2 holes in the 2 skins don't line up, and there isn't much room between the skins.

I find that it is easiest to release the 2 grommits, then remove the door (with the help of a friend as it is quite heavy), then pull the wires out.

To remove the door, it is best to drift the pins out (after removing the circlip) and leave the bolted bits as they are.

Replacement is the reverse, but trying to get the wires and grommits located isn't a quick / easy job (unless it's because I'm a marrow-fingered being).

[M100TURBOFR]

OK Thanks again Dave

[par]

It isn't actually too bad to remove the doors, the trickiest part is the removal and refitting of the rubber grommets mentioned by Dave, once the 2 connector blocks under the dash have been disconnected.