What to do about heavy rust around the outriggers

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What to do about heavy rust around the outriggers

Postby MattDon » Sun 30.05.2010, 14:23

just uncovered the sills in the green car and theyre pretty badly rusted, stuck a screw driver through in several places. Is there anything that can be done for this? its not such a big issue with this car but im worried about loki and to be honest everyone else.

If this cant be sorted, then is a new tub the only option and if so what happens with the dvla, as i was under the impression the body work is whats used to identify the car.
Last edited by MattDon on Tue 01.06.2010, 19:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What to do about heavy rust around the sill members

Postby Specky » Sun 30.05.2010, 17:54

In all honesty is a big ass job which I'm trying to undertake at this very moment....

The only way is replacement, but to get them out it's a hell of a job...

when I have them out, they're going to be repaired and galvanised before they go back in.

have you looked at the very rear of the sills, just infront of the wheel arches :shock:

Sadly it's gonna be an Elan Killer.

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Re: What to do about heavy rust around the sill members

Postby MattDon » Sun 30.05.2010, 18:26

ouch not what i wanted to hear, guess id better check on loki but im affraid to look. so whats involved in the replacment?
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Re: What to do about heavy rust around the sill members

Postby Specky » Sun 30.05.2010, 18:36

Basically,

I'm gonna remove the top of the tub (seperating the top from the floor)

Then possibly the cills

then the metal work

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Re: What to do about heavy rust around the sill members

Postby Jackonicko » Sun 30.05.2010, 20:32

So how best to protect the cars, Specky? Where would you drill the holes to inject the waxoil? Or would you do something different?
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Re: What to do about heavy rust around the sill members

Postby MattDon » Sun 30.05.2010, 20:54

ive never used waxoil but i dont think youd need to drill anything, the sill member is under the carpet under the doors which is fairly easy to get to, on mine the rust was all along the bottom where im assuming wet carpet comes into contact with the sill, so im guessing a good start would be to keep that area dry and put something between the carpet and the sill member, even just a little plastic sheeting. Then i guess clean up the area and apply some sort of coating, having not looked into this sort of thing before i couldnt say what to use, but anything that offers a waterproof barrier should do it. Its a shame they arnt made from a more suitable material it cant be that difficult... can it? then again if they could make a car that didnt fill up with water it would be a good start.
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Re: What to do about heavy rust around the sill members

Postby MattDon » Mon 31.05.2010, 18:49

just checked and loki looks better than the BRG, but ive only managed to sneak a peak and the passanger side at the front. It looks repairable but how would one go about that, is it weldable?
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Re: What to do about heavy rust around the sill members

Postby Specky » Mon 31.05.2010, 19:47

If you have a scan in the manual it's very good for integral metal repair....

It covers nearly every eventuallity in quite some depth.


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Re: What to do about heavy rust around the sill members

Postby rip » Tue 01.06.2010, 08:59

I trust that by sill, you mean outrigger?
Mine is going in tonight for some work on this (among other things) as the jacking point has gone soft & this will be required before the car goes on the 2-post lift to do the other stuff. I fear the worst...because I've read the manual :shock:
I have heard others mention soft jacking points too, so I think this problem is more common than most of us realise.

It throws mud at the common comment we get:
Ah fibreglass. At least you won't have any problems with rust!
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Re: What to do about heavy rust around the sill members

Postby nicowalker1 » Tue 01.06.2010, 18:47

i dont even want to think about this subject!!! Ive all on with the wishbones, Im guessing this would cost thousands for a garage to repair/replace...
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Re: What to do about heavy rust around the sill members

Postby rip » Wed 02.06.2010, 00:28

nicowalker1 wrote:i dont even want to think about this subject!!! Ive all on with the wishbones, Im guessing this would cost thousands for a garage to repair/replace...


I'll let you know.
It depends what is wrong & I've been told by various people I trust that you have limited access to these from within the car with the seats out.
It may be just the jacking points which have gone on yours. You won't know until you have a look.
I've just got back from dropping off my car in Newmarket to have the starter replaced. Gerald only has 2-post lifts, so he will have to do something about the jacking point first befoore lifting the car to get at the starter.
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Re: What to do about heavy rust around the sill members

Postby rip » Wed 02.06.2010, 21:27

Specky wrote:Sadly it's gonna be an Elan Killer.

Dave, I think you're being defeatist. I won't have my Elan killed off like that. With all our resources on this forum, we must be able to engineer a solution.
It's just another challenge, not a dead end.

Here is a pic of mine taken today:

The structural beam is hidden, but is not too bad. The vertical support which provides the jacking point needs replacing, but I don't see anything wrong with welding a new one in.
It looked a lot better with most of the loose rust swept away, but the surface plate is not structural. This can be cut away & as long as there is a way to attach it, I am sure CF can be set in place. It should be stronger & lighter than the original components too.
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Re: What to do about heavy rust around the outriggers

Postby nicowalker1 » Wed 02.06.2010, 23:08

:( looks like another expensive job, im sure some will be prepared to get it sorted yet others may not due to the low value of the car. The jobs that need doing on all of them is becoming more than the value of the car....
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Re: What to do about heavy rust around the outriggers

Postby surfboardfiller » Thu 03.06.2010, 00:47

That explains the metal creaking noise I was telling you about when I jacked the car up at my workshop. :shock:

I'm quite interested in how to fix this problem. :wink:
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Re: What to do about heavy rust around the outriggers

Postby Specky » Thu 03.06.2010, 08:27

Good picture there Rip,

I'm not a defeatest, just a realist.

I can guarantee what you have photographed is the good side.

If you went in through the battery bay and look infront of the rear wheel arches you'll see the bad damage.

The lefthand side is nearly impossible to access.

I've started to seperate tub from the metal work, but as no one has done it I'm taking my time.

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Re: What to do about heavy rust around the outriggers

Postby rip » Thu 03.06.2010, 09:32

surfboardfiller wrote:I'm quite interested in how to fix this problem. :wink:


Funny you should say that....
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Re: What to do about heavy rust around the outriggers

Postby MattDon » Thu 03.06.2010, 20:42

im also curious to know how to sort this out, i think specky is right, the cost of getting access to the area alone will be enough to put off the casual owner. obviously us lot on here will move heaven and earth to sort out our cars, but others and im guessing insurance companies will see it differently.

Also a quick question, ive been looking at the manual and cant find the section that covers this.
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Re: What to do about heavy rust around the outriggers

Postby rip » Fri 04.06.2010, 08:36

MattDon wrote:Also a quick question, ive been looking at the manual and cant find the section that covers this.


Not sure where it is, but I have seen it.
I believe step 1 was to remove the A pillar & it didn't get any easier. :(
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Re: What to do about heavy rust around the outriggers

Postby cliff » Sun 15.05.2011, 00:29

I was getting worried until I found this thread and rip's picture. Makes mine look better

CIMG0731.jpg


CIMG0733.jpg


The fibre glass area around the fuse box looks like it can be cut out to give access. Bad bits cut out and a new piece welded in as long as the surrounding area is ok.

This does not look so good but the bad bits could be cut out and a reinforcing plate fitted and bonded to the tub.

CIMG0734.jpg


CIMG0735.jpg


Or a strengthening section.

Strengthening Section.pdf


Has anyone done any repairs like this? Searching throught the forum didn't give much information. There must be an easier way to repair small areas of corrosion than splitting the tub.
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Re: What to do about heavy rust around the outriggers

Postby surfboardfiller » Tue 17.05.2011, 11:09

Here are a few thoughts and opinions I have:

I would not split the tub that doesn't seem to make any sense.

The outrigger is part composite and part steel. The two parts are bonded together in the usual Sika flex way with the aesthetic sill bonded on the out side.

The only way Lotus could get the torsional rigidity was to use a carbon composite or steel section, they rejected Carbon as it was too expensive back then.
Being a convertible its an engineering feat to get this rigidity in a convertible for the price it sold for.

We are in 20 years now and most of the Dinitrol work is only guaranteed for 8 years and is often not renewed.

If its corroded then it should be cut out whilst the tub is supported evenly on a level floor.
I propose a replacement section in steel, welded in place or Carbon composite bonded in place of a cut out section. The steel is very thin which is why it looks so badly corroded.

Phil

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