Tracking Down A Leak

[Dom]

Evening, All.

I’ve pretty much got the car leak free, but there is an annoying and persistent leak finding its way in somewhere and resulting in drips showing at the corner of the box shaped trim in the mid right of the picture. I’ve looked behind the glovebox with a torch while it’s raining and it’s all dry there. Could the water be running down the a pillar? The seals are all new and from the excellent Jamie, so no worries there. Any suggestions gratefully received.

All the best,

Dom

[Rambo]

That box shaped trim you describe is the main fusebox

There is a reason for your leak but I can't remember what it is exactly. I do remember though that JohnW came up with a plausible explanation. Someone else (Dapinky, El Geoffos...) may also remember the source of your leak (blocked filter ???????)

[Rambo]

Found it

Foam seal in the air inlet ??? Worth a try ??? (see JohnW's reply)

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=16508&p=218312&hilit=Leak+in+footwell#p218312

[Kathryn]

It could be running down the a pillar. I find it runs down the seal and onto the sill then seeps into the car when I go round a bend. (I thought maybe this was because I haven't attached the seals at the bottom.)
I have Jamie's a pillar seals but not his header seal and that seems to be where my leaks are now. I have had the roof adjusted but I have a small gap on one side and the water collects along the top of the windscreen, somehow gets inside the trim and comes out somewhere behind the sun visors. ( I also think it may get in the a pillar trim) It was just the passenger side (I thought I'd sealed the gap, but it would appear not!) but is now coming in the driver's side a bit too!

[Jamie N]

The main thing with the EPDM seals is that the bracket is absolutely spotless, especially the forward lip that the new seals sit in, any bits of sponge left in there will create a point where water could enter in behind the seal, that forward edge of the seal needs to be sitting level all the way down with no little valleys or ripples.

The other thing I can think of Dom (and Katherine too), is the bracket is screwed onto the alloy pillar and this is often corroded especially where the screws are (the screw heads are often rusted badly with the sodden sponge that sits on top of them too) ,this can leak water into the cabin which looks like the seal is leaking but it is the bracket it sits in not having full contact with the A pillar. So I would advise removing the seal and then detach the bracket, make sure everything behind it is smooth and free from corrosion the refit it with new screws and a bead of sealant, then pop the seal back on and make sure the base is stuck on with some butyl.

Provided you fit the seal so that the glass is making contact then water will not get past it, any leak from above thereafter will either be the bracket issues I mentioned or in Katherines case where she still has the sponge header it will be water being drawn into the sponge, going down onto the header rail at either side and dripping from the top of the A pillar or running down the underside.
The one piece EPDM header / A pillar seals combined will cure that scenario, provided they are fitted correctly with everything spotless and clean they wont leak.

Rambo's suggestion about the air inlet seal is worth a check as well , and did someone not post about a crack they found somewhere near the upper door hinge ?. Whatever is causing it I am sure it will be an easy fix, but its the usual problem with cars... finding where it is!.

[Dom]

Thank you to everyone for your useful suggestions. Jamie, you’ve been most helpful, as always. I’ll give your suggestions a go tomorrow in the predicted sunshine! I’ll let you know how I get on.

[Dom]

Ok, I’ve had a look and applied the watering can test. It also actually rained, which was handy. Anyway, the water appears to be coming down the inside of the a pillar, somehow. It’s coming in pretty fast, but how, I’m not sure! On the left side of the photo is Jamie’s seal. You can see the black metal channel it sits in. The water is coming down the right hand, outside edge of the metal channel, so is dodging the seal. It becomes visible just above the black chip in the green paint at the top of the photo.

[Jamie N]

Looks like what I said above Dom, something between the seal and the bracket, I would reckon it just need a good clean out and make sure it is all smooth, a thin strip of butyl down the centre of the bracket and replace your seal.

One thing that has a big effect on the A pillar and the hood seals as well, is the standard weather strip, it is one of the reasons for the door glass flopping from side to side, preventing the glass from making a good firm contact with your seals, it is just too flimsy and doesn't keep the glass rigid enough. Apart from the fact they crack and look bad, the main reason I changed mine to Honda ones was to keep the glass held more firmly as it lands on the seals.

The Honda weather strip's are something I would recommend regardless of what type of seals you have, as floppy door glass is up there with the other main culprits for water ingress, the difference is like night and day.

[Steve A]

It is critical

But we need to find a more common seal as the Honda seal is proving to be rather hard to find

Here we have the view of the A pillar without the seal and bracket



And below with the bracket only



When you remove the bracket it is very likely you will come across a certain amount of spacers which will influence the angle the bracket sits against the frame.

[Dom]

Those are very useful images, Steve. Now I know what to expect!

[Steve A]

You'll probably end up changing the screws so you'll need to source some nice low profile ones like these

[Dom]

You'll probably end up changing the screws so you'll need to source some nice low profile ones like these

Thanks for that. Is there a good online source?

[Steve A]

I found them in my local shop that has everything, but I dare say there readerly available

[Dom]

I got busy today. I removed Jamie's seal, which was the work of moments. Then I undid all the screws that hold the metal receiver to the a pillar. They were not rusty and came out easily, but the top one was without its head. This meant the receiver was not sitting down fully at the top, which certainly won't have helped. Next I cleaned everything up, applied sealant to the receiver and refitted it. I made sure the header rail was spotless and applied more sealant to any gaps. Finally I reapplied Jamie's seal. The job looks neat and things are certainly better finished than they were. Now to see if it's watertight! The offside is, so if I've succeeded, I'll have a dry Elan. Magic!

[CalElan]

I got busy today. I removed Jamie's seal, which was the work of moments. Then I undid all the screws that hold the metal receiver to the a pillar. They were not rusty and came out easily, but the top one was without its head. This meant the receiver was not sitting down fully at the top, which certainly won't have helped. Next I cleaned everything up, applied sealant to the receiver and refitted it. I made sure the header rail was spotless and applied more sealant to any gaps. Finally I reapplied Jamie's seal. The job looks neat and things are certainly better finished than they were. Now to see if it's watertight! The offside is, so if I've succeeded, I'll have a dry Elan. Magic!

A feat I could only achieve by moving to California!

[Dom]

Well, I’m not counting my chickens, but I remain ever hopeful...

[Dom]

My optimism was rewarded. The issue has been successfully addressed and my passenger footwell is dry. Hooray! Many thanks for all your suggestions and a massive thumbs up for Jamie’s seals. Not only do they look better than the OEM ones, but they actually keep the water out.

[Kathryn]

I checked mine today. The water isn't getting inside the seals it is merely dripping down the outside and dripping in the corner where the door meets the bonnet. It only gets in if it rains heavy. The water I saw on the inside edge of the seal only comes in when I open the door or window!
An observation I made when fitting the seals is that the brackets on each side differ. I'm not sure how, maybe angled differently, but the seals seem to sit a little different. I found the old passenger side seal a nightmare to remove, but the new one easy to fit (and remove - I've adjusted it several times!). I did the other side a few weeks later and found the old seal easier to remove (which I put down to experience) but the new one a bit trickier to attach (on the plus side it's not needed adjusting!).
Agree Jamie's seals are far superior to the originals !