Water in the footwell

[johnj]

Hi

The car as expected leaked at the roof seals. I bought a set of Jamie's seals which initially seemed to make matters worse. I think they were acting with other broken seals and directing water towards the sill were the water overtopped the kickplate filling the footwell. Cutting holes in the underside door seals allowed the water out . However water is still getting into the passenger footwell. In the footwell there is a bolt head which has gone rusty could water be getting around here. If so how do I make this area waterproof?

[Dave Eds]

What is the condition of the door glass seals?

[johnj]

Hi Dave

Thanks for the reply. There are no bits missing but for the first 6 or 7 inches, from the front of the car, there are cracks about every inch. The distance between cracks gets larger as you move further along the seal. There was less rain last night and only a drop or two in the footwell at the corner nearest the door. I've in the recent weather been taking pints of water from the footwell every morning

[alan e]

Where you park it is it flat or on a hill.

[johnj]

On a hill facing downhill

[dapinky]

I fully understand that the 'best' thing to do is to find and rectify the water entry points....

.... however....

the reality with these cars is that is often easier said than done - and the "only" way to do it is to keep the car in a garage and only bring it out on dry days (but not always possible or desirable).

Some will say that you need to adjust every gap you can find etc etc etc - but it will never be perfect, despite your best efforts - it's just the way these cars are.

Certainly, you can minimise it to the point where you may gat the odd damp patch, but no puddles - and that is great,

What I would say, is that it is the water remaining in the car which is the problem, more than water getting in. You need to get to a position where any water that comes in, will get out again.

Although both of mine live in a garage, and don't (very often) go out on wet days, they are prepared for longer trips where staying outside is not just an option, but a necessity.

First, you need to remove the seats, then the plastic sill covers, then the carpets (you may find it easier to undo the mounting screws for the centre console, but you can do it without.... and the rear speaker boxes/B posts are easy to remove for better access...... You will find that the underfelt for the carpets are made of water-absorbent sponge and needs to be thrown out. Best bet is to use closed-cell foam (10mm thick, easily available on ebay etc) to replace the sponge. Before laying the new sponge, it is a perfect time to rectify any damage/degradation to the metal sill outriggers, seat mountings and jacking points.... if there is no rectification necessary, congratulations - you are in the small minority who are that lucky, so squirt waxoil wherever you can and carry on.....

Drill a few (as many as you think you need) 6mm diameter holes through the floor at the lowest points of each 'water catchment area' - probably about 5 or 6 on each side of the car. I usually seal the fibreglass afterwards with some paint, but not 100% necessary. On a 'traditional' fibreglass lay-up car (or boat etc) water will seep along the layers of material, but as the Elan is injection moulded, that isn't going to happen.... but it may get into any cracks introduced by the drilling.

Whilst the carpets are out, they will come up really well with a dose of pressure-washing and carpet shampooing, then being left to dry.

Refit it all, and then even if some water gets in, it will get out again without settling in the car - you'd be surprised how long it would take a car with the original underfelt to dry out - even in a garage with a heater and de-humidifier it takes weeks more than hours.

[johnj]

Hi Dave

You may well be right about the drilling drain holes. One weekend I removed over a gallon of water from the footwells. Removing an inch deep , at the bulkhead, puddle and them doing the same the next day is a little soul destroying. Drain holes would stop me seeing the puddles.

The carpets are up at the moment to stop them getting wet. I fitted the closed cell foam some time ago and checked for rust damage. There was a little rust damage in the corner behind the drivers seat I took the metal back to solid painted rust stopper and then a covering of zinc paint. The damage seems to have stabilised . This job is on my get a man to do it list as I do not have the required skills. Compared to some pictures I've seen my damage is small and I was leaving it until I got other jobs done. Do you think that is an ok action plan or should I get it fixed sooner rather than later?

The motorbikes claimed the garage

[dapinky]

John,

If you've already looked for damage, and addressed the issues you found, then you are well ahead of the curve (some people either don't know to look, or bury their head in the sand - but whatever is there won't go away by ignoring it!).

I would suggest lifting the carpet, drilling some holes and that will give you an opportunity to have another squint at the sills - if they are still good, then the plan is good, and they can be left alone (or even extra spray protection) - if they have degraded, you need to make a decision of either doing the same as you did previously, or getting something else done.... the main thing being that at the moment, there is an almost constant presence of water, and drain holes will reduce that.

[johnj]

Dave

Thanks for the advice, drilling the holes seems like the way to go.

[Tuga2112]

drilling holes and replacing the sound unsilation with closed cell foam is kind of a given.
the follow up would be to nag JamieN for a set of seals. which certainly improve things further.

inspecting the jacking points and outriggers is rahter important, but certainly a scary task (similar to some medical checks that many of us should really do, but are too scared of the results)
as far as the jacking points and outriggers, the information available on the internet certainly has came a long way in the 10 years i have owner the M100. after the initial post appeared and started the convesation, more and more people started adding to the discussion and sharing their experiences.

[Jamie N]

John if you find any issues where water might be getting past the seals send me pictures via the email and I will help you sort it out, provided the seals are fitted as per
instructions there shouldn't be any ingress but as you will no doubt be aware the glass / hood / pillar brackets can vary their positioning widely, and the door glass especially
can cause issues if not sitting right, luckily though most things are easily enough adjusted.

Another thing to look at as well is your door surround seals, well known for big chunks disintegrating and allowing rainwater onto the plastic cill trim which then overflows
into the car, exacerbated if the car is sitting on anything other than an absolutely flat surface.

[johnj]

Hi Jamie

Thanks for the message and offer of help. You seals look great. Looking at the door surround seals they are completely shot and the car is parked on a hill. Is there an upgraded doors surround offered by anyone?

[Steve A]

Just agreeing with what's already been said on this subject, Lotus found it necessary to publish the above.
It's important to keep the water out, but it's probably just as important to remove it if it does get in, and it will

[Steve A]

I decided to go for 5.5mm holes as I felt that would be adequate enough, and I could always go bigger if necessary.

I think if your car lives outside this is a quick and easy way to stop water sitting where it can do harm.
My car spends most of the time in a garage, but there's always going to be a time when you're going to get it wet.

[johnj]

Hi Steve
I think I will drill some drainage holes as you and Dave suggest and looking at the state of the door seals I will fit new ones if I can find some. I looked at SJ Sportscars but could not find any. Does anyone know where else I could look?

[Jamie N]

As far I'm aware there are no door surround seals commercially available John, I could be wrong though!.

The only solution I've found is to replicate them with something from a modern car, there are plenty of options for the main section of the seal that goes down the side
and along the bottom, most door surround seals are based on a very similar design but the differences come from the end sections, and the Elans is not the easiest
to replicate, it can be done though if you are hands on type of guy.

One way it could be done quite simply is if your end sections are ok is to cut them off and join them to the main section of say a Celica door surround seal for example,
although there are probably dozens of other cars with a similar profile surround seal, you would probably have to relocate some of the plastic studs that locate it onto the
door but that's easy enough done. If the complete seal is a wreck then the only way is to replicate the whole thing.

I've done a few for friends and my own Elans, these ones were from a Hyundai IIRC but the part above the lock and onto the door card took some serious working out,
but the main seal going round the bottom fits so perfectly it looks like it was made for the car, even many of the studs were in the exact position required to pop into the door.

[johnj]

Hi Jamie

The door seals are completely kaput. There is only a piece of black plastic left behind the window the rest of the seal above the lock is mostly gone. The rubber has gone and the foam has become hard and crumbles to dust if touched. The underside of the door seal holds water. The seal at the front of the door appears to have lost all the stiffing and is split in several places.