Lotus Elan Central

by **Hegg** » Tue 10.10.2006, 17:54

Ok, ok, I know this has probably been brought up a hundred times with empty promises, but I'm curious about interest in a manufactured hardtop available in the US.

I am meeting with a fiberglass manufacturing company this week or next about making some moulds and all that for having a hardtop made. I am very interested, of course, in sharing the love if we were to achieve success, but part of that is dependent on how much interest there would be. The tooling process is expensive of course, but if people would be interested, there would be much more incentive to proceed.

So, without any guarantee of it ever happening, I'm looking for a general idea of who would really be interested in getting a hardtop. Of course this could extend worldwide, but shipping would not be cheap.

Secondly, what level of interest are you in relation to cost? How much would you pay for a hardtop? What if it was pre-primed? What if you specified your body color when you ordered it and it came pre-painted?

Third, what features are you interested in? Do you want it totally bare? Rear-glass defogger thingies? Padded, soundproof interior? What else?

So far, it looks like the best way to proceed with mounting is to basically use the convertible top cover lid as the base, then build a hardtop on top of it. This eliminates the need to find a way to mount the hardtop on the rear side of the car (the front side is easy enough using the existing soft top mounting system, or something similar). I envision that you basically remove the few bolts holding the soft top storage cover off the car, take the cover out, and then bolt on the hard top. When you're done for the season, just reverse and put your old storage cover back on. It's maybe not the most convenient way to do it, but I dread trying to find another way to mount the hard top (which usually involves drilling holes). Of course if you're a true Lotus believer in light-weight, you'd remove the softtop assembly entirely while you had the hardtop on!

So, please let me know your feedback and all that. I know there have been numerous promises of a hardtop from many places, and plenty of complaining that nobody has followed through, so I am nervous about even making this post. I cannot guarantee or promise anything at all -- I'm in the VERY preliminary stages of research because I, like many, would like a hard top for MY car.

One of the main reasons I would like to know interest is because, as I'm sure you've guessed, if there is a lot of interest, then it becomes much more feasible to invest in the tooling and manufacturing. If only one other person wants one, then it's not as appealing to spend $15,000 for a hardtop spread over 2 people compared to 20.

I've bought a hardtop for my TR7 in the past and found that they usually seemed to run $1,500 to as much as $2,200. Is that a reasonable price for a hardtop, or would there be zero interest at that price bracket? And for that much cash, what features would you expect? For my TR7, that was a hardtop, mounting hardware, and waiting for you to paint it/finish it.

So anyway, please don't yell at me for pre-promising a hardtop (because I'm not) and please don't depend on me to come through (because I might not) and please provide constructive comments.

On the other hand, I have my fingers crossed!

by **TheBard** » Tue 10.10.2006, 22:25

I've bought a hardtop for my TR7 in the past and found that they usually seemed to run $1,500 to as much as $2,200. Is that a reasonable price for a hardtop, or would there be zero interest at that price bracket? And for that much cash, what features would you expect? For my TR7, that was a hardtop, mounting hardware, and waiting for you to paint it/finish it.

In that price range (lower end ideally), with all mounting parts, primed or unpainted but with interior trim? and depending on the design, I may be interested in a while, maybe later next year. Right now I've spent my budget for the year, plus more besides.

I'd be interested to see what you have in mind though? As it was the price that has really restricted me from advancing on a UK version after seeing Sy's balanced on the M200 at PMs in 2005.

Cheers,

Ian

by **Fubar1764** » Tue 10.10.2006, 23:21

I may be interested as well!

by **Hegg** » Wed 11.10.2006, 00:04

Thanks for the replies. I kinda re-read my post and it didn't really come across very nice, but oh well.

I guess my point is that I don't want to exclude interest from overseas owners, but my intent was to see how many "locals" would be interested, which could in turn determine how feasible it is to pursue.

As far as the other hardtop that has become available, I was under the impression that it's not really available anymore. I don't recall the specifics, but something about Simon's doc telling him to take a break and quit stressing about hard tops.

Anyway, I couldn't get a hold of him directly to find out if a hardtop is actually still available, how it's attached, the cost, and how much to ship over here. I just happened across a neighbor that's in the fiberglass industry so we have been investigating it to see what might be possible over here.

Geh.... I'm rambling again... it's so hard to say what I'm trying to say....

by **donsladek** » Wed 11.10.2006, 02:05

Hegg,

(slightly off topic :idea:

)

Any chance of your 'glass man making the obsolete(?) front fender liners (sez the guy who's missing a right side liner!)

Don Sladek

by **Hegg** » Wed 11.10.2006, 03:21

donsladek wrote:Any chance of your 'glass man making the obsolete(?) front fender liners (sez the guy who's missing a right side liner!)

Well, the truth is that I'm sure anything can be made for a price! However, I'm not positive what piece you mean. Is it the black piece inside the wheelwell that has the 4 or 5 "grooves" along it?

by **donsladek** » Wed 11.10.2006, 04:45

Is it the black piece inside the wheelwell that has the 4 or 5 "grooves" along it?

Yes, that's the one. After having another look, it actually looks more like a plastic than fiberglass, so maybe this isn't the place for this.

Sorry for hijacking the thread!

Don Sladek

by **F1 LOTUS** » Wed 11.10.2006, 08:09

donsladek wrote:
Is it the black piece inside the wheelwell that has the 4 or 5 "grooves" along it?

Yes, that's the one. After having another look, it actually looks more like a plastic than fiberglass, so maybe this isn't the place for this.

Sorry for hijacking the thread!

Don Sladek

Possibly vac-formed Low Density Polyethelene?

by **Kuching** » Wed 11.10.2006, 19:49

It is true that I have struggled to keep up with the hardtop project due to ill-health but I still produce them occasionaly.

If you are intent on producing a run of hardtops maybe it would make sense to take advantage of the design and development that I have already done - believe me, it is no simple task! The molds already exist so why reinvent them. In any case it would be cheaper to ship the molds to the US than to produce new tooling.

If you are interested let me know.

by **Hegg** » Wed 11.10.2006, 20:05

That is a great offer. I don't want to put you out or anything, and I apologize if you thought I was poking fun at your illness.

However, you are probably right that shipping just the molds would be a good alternative for the USA market to obtain hardtops.

Honestly, I was expecting a more positive response than just one person saying "maybe next year". This may have just been an exercise in futility.

by **F1 LOTUS** » Thu 12.10.2006, 00:21

I'm interested

by **mailman221** » Thu 12.10.2006, 05:00

I would be interested in this also.

by **algirdas** » Thu 12.10.2006, 05:29

Dear Hegg:

I'm interested. Also, albeit off topic, and I know you do not need a windshield at the moment, but I found for you a source in SLC for M100 windshields. I have my notes at the office and will post that up when I remember it again.

Allow me toss out a suggestion. Why don't we reproduce the moulds and have a set in the UK and in the US? I also suggest that we consider taking the long view toward our cars and preserve for future "generations" all of the brilliant engineering and craftsmanship that guys like Alan, Kutching, Dave, Brian, dames like Marie and scores of others have demonstrated over the years. In other words, perhaps we should consider a "self-preservation society" component to the LEC?

Sincerely,

Algirdas

by **F1 LOTUS** » Thu 12.10.2006, 05:39

algirdas wrote:Dear Hegg:

Allow me toss out a suggestion. Why don't we reproduce the moulds and have a set in the UK and in the US?

Sincerely,

Algirdas

This is something I suggested to Simon some time ago, and I've just reminded him that the offer still stands should he be interested in having his hardtop produced here in the USA? With the low value of the dollar it could possibly be less expensive to make them here anyway and ship them to Europe?

by **algirdas** » Thu 12.10.2006, 06:13

Dear Brian:

Let me toss out yet another suggestion, albeit a potentially totally absurd one. Just by happenstance, one of the guys from LOCO (Lotus Colorado) is doing stuff for Lotuses (primarily the earlier ones) in carbon fiber and there is a large autoclave (?) here in Fort Fun that is ramping up and doing more and more large stuff (helicopter rotor blades, airplane fuselages and the like) in CF.

What do you think if we can do it cost effectively?

Sincerely,

Algirdas

by **F1 LOTUS** » Thu 12.10.2006, 06:40

To keep costs down it would be better to avoid using an autoclave (I have 3 in my shop 2' dia x 4' to 8'dia x 22'!), besides it's not at all neccessary for this component. The key to making these economically is to keep labor time down and automate as much as possible, so having the ability to pre-cut material kits will significantly reduce layup time

If Simon is up for providing the molds I can get manufacturing quoted

by **algirdas** » Thu 12.10.2006, 06:47

Dear Brian and Hegg:

You are the boss! If there is anything I can do to help, just let me know.

Sincerely,

Algirdas

by **Matt RI** » Mon 16.10.2006, 22:07

I do have some interest as well. Mine tends to be wrapped up for the winter, but if the production cost is reasonable it would be nice to have coverage none-the-less.

by **Dave M** » Tue 17.10.2006, 02:29

Hegg wrote:Of course if you're a true Lotus believer in light-weight, you'd remove the softtop assembly entirely while you had the hardtop on!

You read my mind! Count me in as a possible. My preference would be a shell that I could paint with no interior and non-defrost glass.

by **F1 LOTUS** » Tue 17.10.2006, 08:16

I'm pleased to say that Kuching (Simon) and I have recently been discussing the possibility of producing his Hardtop here in the USA

We've worked together in the past at Team Lotus, and it would be great if we can work together again on this Lotus project. Of course, everything depends on the economics of getting parts made locally.

As a first step Simon will be sending CAD surface data that I can use to establish fabrication costs, then we'll be able to suggest a realistic ballpark price for people to decide over

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