Induction kits - are they any good?

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Induction kits - are they any good?

Postby Rocklobster » Mon 12.02.2018, 13:25

Just looking for opinions. If I'm correct in thinking that the M100 has a charge cooler, is an induction kit going to be able to improve on the standard arrangement with a K&N element fitted?

Surely, the charge cooler will make sure you've got a denser charge (as it's cooler), therefore any benefit of additional flow through an induction kit will be marginalized. Does anyone have any data on this?
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Re: Induction kits - are they any good?

Postby bbjon » Mon 12.02.2018, 16:59

It's just my opinion but beyond looks and noise an 'induction kit' will make next to no difference in a relatively standard elan.
The elan doesn't really struggle for air and the standard dustbin takes it from a nice low pressure area in the wheel arch

In terms of charge temperature you have:

Air filter >>>> turbo >>>> intercooler >>>> engine

The turbo is generally quite warm and will do a decent job of heating the air from the intake regardless of the filter - the temperature of the air exiting the Intercooler is what you need to reduce and that's more effected by ambient conditions than the filter you're using.

As usual I may be spouting utter balls so take this with a pinch of salt!
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Re: Induction kits - are they any good?

Postby Simon_P » Mon 12.02.2018, 19:14

Compressing the air makes it more dense and hotter - let's say about 100oC

The power of an engine is related to the difference in temperature of the mixture in the cylinder before and after it has gone bang. So colder air going in is generally better.

The standard kit will provide cooler air than an "induction kit" and hence power.
The standard filter has more air resistance than the K and N which would give less turbo lag.

How much does the increase in power off set the lag is the question because once the waste gate is open the standard kit gives more power.

It is easier to cool the hot air, so a more efficient intercooler would be the answer but they are very expensive!

It's forced induction so any work on the induction tract is going to be marginal - there is a bloody great step in the inlet manifold... So what?

In summary save your money!
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Re: Induction kits - are they any good?

Postby chrisP » Tue 13.02.2018, 16:41

If you want a new bigger intercooler, see my post here: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=24610
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Re: Induction kits - are they any good?

Postby lotusflasherman » Tue 13.02.2018, 16:48

Simon_P wrote:Compressing the air makes it more dense and hotter - let's say about 100oC

The power of an engine is related to the difference in temperature of the mixture in the cylinder before and after it has gone bang. So colder air going in is generally better.

The standard kit will provide cooler air than an "induction kit" and hence power.
The standard filter has more air resistance than the K and N which would give less turbo lag.

How much does the increase in power off set the lag is the question because once the waste gate is open the standard kit gives more power.

It is easier to cool the hot air, so a more efficient intercooler would be the answer but they are very expensive!

It's forced induction so any work on the induction tract is going to be marginal - there is a bloody great step in the inlet manifold... So what?

In summary save your money!


:agree: with everything Simon wrote but would add:

An ITG Foam Air Fliter in 'the dustbin' gives less air resistance than standard paper elements so takes care of the 'more air resistance'. About £35 (from Kelvedon Motors in 2013) but can be cleaned and re-oiled so you never need to buy another filter. (It's ITG BH-112)
Keeping 'the dustbin' provides a convenient means of fitting a Recirculating Dump Valve that keeps the turbo spinning during gear changes so no turbo lag, and turbo has an easier life not stalling against a closed throttle ... and you can't hear it ! so that's a win, win, win situation .. :D
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Re: Induction kits - are they any good?

Postby HJ2 » Tue 13.02.2018, 19:10

I had a K&N for a year or so. (in the bin) But I swapped it back for a paper one. A fresh paper filter has no more resistance than a K&N one, but filters much better imho. A new filter is cheap as chips and I use 2 per year so resistance due to pollution of the filter never becomes an issue. My 2 cents anyway 8)
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Re: Induction kits - are they any good?

Postby Rocklobster » Tue 13.02.2018, 19:22

lotusflasherman wrote:
:agree: with everything Simon wrote but would add:

An ITG Foam Air Fliter in 'the dustbin' gives less air resistance than standard paper elements so takes care of the 'more air resistance'. About £35 (from Kelvedon Motors in 2013) but can be cleaned and re-oiled so you never need to buy another filter. (It's ITG BH-112)
Keeping 'the dustbin' provides a convenient means of fitting a Recirculating Dump Valve that keeps the turbo spinning during gear changes so no turbo lag, and turbo has an easier life not stalling against a closed throttle ... and you can't hear it ! so that's a win, win, win situation .. :D



I like the sound of that. How do you plumb in a recirculating dump valve?
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Re: Induction kits - are they any good?

Postby lotusflasherman » Tue 13.02.2018, 20:21

Rocklobster wrote:I like the sound of that. How do you plumb in a recirculating dump valve?
:poke:


Like this ...

dv30 01.jpg


dv30 02.jpg
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Re: Induction kits - are they any good?

Postby Rocklobster » Tue 13.02.2018, 23:20

Thanks Phil. Another job to add to the list...
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Re: Induction kits - are they any good?

Postby lotusflasherman » Wed 14.02.2018, 01:15

Rocklobster wrote:Thanks Phil. Another job to add to the list...


To T off the induction hose one of these will be useful ... T-Piece-Alloy-Metal-Dump-Valve-Connector
and to feed into the 'dustbin' I used something like this drilled out to match the inner bore. Dump-Valve-Alloy-Blanking-Plug-25mm
The shoulder is inside with a 'curved washer' cut from silicone hose to deal with the curve of the 'dustbin' and the jubilee clip round the silicone hose holds it from the outside ...

Mine is a Bailey but they were expensive and are now like 'rocking-horse poo' to find. Some members use Forge but I've bought an ebay 'cheapo' to do a direct comparison with my Bailey. Cheap RDV
That's on my 'things to do' job list so I can't comment what spring to use in that particular RDV. Silicone hoses can also be bought via ebay.
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