245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby Karl Martin » Wed 23.06.2010, 19:42

Nige, give me a call anytime :D
Power is nothing without control!
“Adding power makes you faster on the straights, subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere.” Colin Chapman....is it asking too much to have both?!
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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby Karl Martin » Wed 23.06.2010, 20:06

To Knoxmotorsports,

This is the paperwork for the tests conducted before this worked started; totaly stock except for the Quicksilver. (It did cause confusion!)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby HJ2 » Wed 23.06.2010, 21:20

Gotta love this thread. Thanks for the detailed experience & all the typing :-) (got your fingers bleeding? )
The procedure with the turbo sounds like a bit more than blueprinting the bugger.

Monty, when you say max. 220 BHP with stock injectors, do you mean 220 BHP @ the wheels or crankshaft?

This definitely has got my attention! 8)
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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby Monty » Thu 24.06.2010, 00:31

HJ2 wrote:Monty, when you say max. 220 BHP with stock injectors, do you mean 220 BHP @ the wheels or crankshaft?



at the Fly, mines running at 206 at the fly

IIRC Alan said after 1bar the engine starts to run lean, i`ve even been thinking of fitting the 550 injectors and 3 bar map sensor i have to see what i can ring out of the stock turbo :?
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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby rip » Thu 24.06.2010, 08:43

Karl Martin wrote:Rip wrote (before he gave me a brain aneurism) :-


:-D

Knox started it, but he confused me by talking in imperial units. :smt017
Now Geoff has explained that, figures for power & torque in bhp & lb.ft respectively should meet at 5252rpm. 5250 is pretty close, but the your figures at this speed are not????


Karl Martin wrote:And because the above upgrade with the Everest chip is fuelling heavy, by raising the boost pressure and remapping ( I am trying to test the Elysium chip) using the existing ECU you will probably get another 10 - 15 BHP. Furthermore, I was told that the existing fuel system (injectors) are nowhere near their limit yet.


This contradicts all we've been told in the past: which is that by keeping a safety margin, stock injectors reach their limit just under 1 bar at maximum revs, which is why overboost cut is set at about 0.95bar.
& the safety margin is better than melted pistons.

It is for this reason that the Elysium mapping gives you a little more mid-range boost, then drops back to around Everest levels as the revs increase.

Numbers & figures are only really there to quantify (& justify) any changes anyhow.
The important bit is how big a smile the car gives you...& it sounds like you are well pleased!
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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby GeoffSmith » Thu 24.06.2010, 13:31

rip wrote:Knox started it, but he confused me by talking in imperial units.

So for Rip's benefit, Karl is getting 164kW @ 733 rad/s and 239N.m @ 579 rad/s :-D

It does fuel rich at high boost and during the latest set of Everest dyno runs, John Wham did run leaner mixtures, but the gains above a certain level were minimal so Alan chose a sensible comprimise between safety and power gain.
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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby rip » Thu 24.06.2010, 14:37

GeoffSmith wrote:So for Rip's benefit, Karl is getting 164kW @ 733 rad/s and 239N.m @ 579 rad/s :-D


:lol: Isn't that easier for calculations?

But i think I was ok once you pointed out the relevance of 5252rpm :mrgreen:
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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby John_W » Thu 24.06.2010, 21:30

GeoffSmith wrote:It does fuel rich at high boost and during the latest set of Everest dyno runs, John Wham did run leaner mixtures, but the gains above a certain level were minimal so Alan chose a sensible comprimise between safety and power gain.

The results are shown on ESM's site: http://elanchips.appee.com/template_content_42.php
The test runs were performed on a dyno with exhaust gas analysis and ElanScan logging so that any knock could be detected. Not all the maps were run, the plan was to home on the best power version without knock. ... Map 8 was selected as the default map for the V5, it offers the best power boost with no measured knock.


The best graph to look at is the 2D crossplot at the bottom of the page. The way ESM has plotted the incremental gains of the V5 over the v4.2 clearly shows the benefit, and the crossplot of a:f vs delta power really shows up the errors in the dyno measurements. The first map8 & map9 look over-optimistic, but the others form a pretty amazingly good trend. Map8 gives about 4BHP over the v4.2 chip, and the graph shows that 2 or 3 BHP more is possible, however I had ElanScan hooked up during the dyno runs, and anything leaner than Map8 gave traces of knock. Since the brief was to find the best setting without knock, Map 8 was chosen.

ESM has always been scrupulous about not providing any chip with any inherent characteristics which could harm an engine; I word it like that because if you're daft enough to use all of the extra boost available from a Mountain chip all the time then in my opinion it's not the chip which may cause the engine to suffer, but the way you're driving.

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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby Karl Martin » Thu 24.06.2010, 22:42

Please be aware that Read Performance or myself, has only good things to say about the mountain chip. :D

It was just noted that, because it over fuels (no doubt at all that this is totally intentional to protect the engine) that the boost (on the setup described above) could therefore be increased and thus produce more power.

And yes, if you constantly drive it like you stole it, then anything will wear out in a very short period of time! :(

Passed it’s MOT today with no problems at all and with flying colours on the emissions! :banana:

At the same time I had Dave's short shift fitted, complete with S2 cables, to be sure of reliability.....and it's absolutely superb, like a completely new gearbox! :clap:
Power is nothing without control!
“Adding power makes you faster on the straights, subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere.” Colin Chapman....is it asking too much to have both?!
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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby rip » Fri 25.06.2010, 08:49

Karl Martin wrote:At the same time I had Dave's short shift fitted, complete with S2 cables, to be sure of reliability.....and it's absolutely superb, like a completely new gearbox! :clap:


& I wouldn't be surprised if you find this a better upgrade than your extra power.
Transforms the car doesn't it? :-D
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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby abmunro » Fri 25.06.2010, 09:43

I agree it's the best modification by miles if you were to go on cost.

Makes the car a pleasure to drive.

I hope to have my Haltech fitted soon and mapped and then we can compare rolling road charts.

Tony
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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby bratboy_y2k » Mon 28.06.2010, 12:40

this is super interesting and I mean super but the hot air intake is a really bad idea. I suggest building a can around that thing and routing air in from the stock location.
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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby bratboy_y2k » Mon 05.07.2010, 01:51

I was talking to a friend and we had some thoughts on the numbers these guys gave you. I suggest getting some numbers from a third party with a rolling road. Those numbers sound a bit suspect.
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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby Karl Martin » Tue 06.07.2010, 19:17

Bratboy-y2k,

The air filter is over the original pipe which collects the cold air from the original intake, so its not as bad as it might appear.

I have now wrapped the metal pipe, though.

The tests were conducted on a hot engine on a rolling road.

As soon as I have the time, I will get another independent test, but driving is believing...it EASILY out runs my friends 350 BHP Ford Focus RS! (much to his utter amazement and disapproval, when I first did it!)

NOTE

The eyes on the end of the S2 cables are held in place by a compression joint which have failed, due to the extra stress placed on them by the short shift....so much for the S2 cables being stronger than my original SE cables!....wasted my money changing them! :evil:

That hasn’t deterred me from keeping the short shift, though....it was superb whilst things worked, so I have contacted Alan Betts via the pm to buy the AB cables.

He has so far been faultless to deal with. :D
Power is nothing without control!
“Adding power makes you faster on the straights, subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere.” Colin Chapman....is it asking too much to have both?!
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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby Nige » Tue 06.07.2010, 19:22

Karl Martin wrote:Nige, give me a call anytime :D


Karl,

Thanks, I'll be in touch when I'm back in UK.
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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby racerstev » Mon 12.07.2010, 05:13

Just a note here guys, the engine in this car is very strong indeed. I had one 8 years ago making 500hp in a
Geo Storm (Impulse) with a stock bottom end. Don't be worried about pushing it!

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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby Karl Martin » Tue 13.07.2010, 18:13

That's good to know, Racerstev, but how about the gear box and drivetrain?
Power is nothing without control!
“Adding power makes you faster on the straights, subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere.” Colin Chapman....is it asking too much to have both?!
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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby racerstev » Wed 14.07.2010, 01:34

I tryed em all in that car. At lower power all was great, 350-375. Just a paddle clutch with a stock pressure plate, slipped just a little on
gear changes but went well! Ran low 11.'s with this setup. I went to a larger turbo, upped the power and started haveing all kinds of clutch and axle
problems. Clutchmasters set me up with a good clutch and a place called driveshaft shop did me well with the axles. Ran 10.4. Was starting to have issues shifting
at high rpm (9000) so I went to a auto trans, went 10.04@140 with that setup..

Oh somewere in there I tryed a AWD from a Impulse RS, it lasted 7 pass's before it broke. Took out the rear, the transfer case and a axle all on the same pass. The
trans held up fine...

With a good clutch and non drag racing starts the trans and axles should hold up fine..

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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby tigerdog » Wed 14.07.2010, 01:41

Wow! Where is the car today?
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Re: 245 BHP for £1000 and perfect delivery!

Postby racerstev » Wed 14.07.2010, 05:08

I have no clue, I sold it to a guy as a shell with the bottom end and auto trans. The last I heard it went on E Bay for
almost nothing..

Before it went drag racing I road raced it with the SCCA in a class called Improved Touring B (ITB). It did pretty
well for itself in NA form...
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