TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby Pants9210 » Sun 21.08.2016, 20:32

GeoffSmith wrote:2½" exhaust is probably the problem then Rob. The stock wastegate is not up to controlling the boost, so you will need to port the wastegate. Search the main site of check the Wiki...
http://wikilec.com/view/Porting_the_wastegate

PS Pops and bangs are usual but it might be worth checking you base timing.

PPS My Elan was a replacement for my '84 Scirroco GTi.

PPPS The Golf is an '09 GTD with knackered ABS and currently on the third replacement to try and get it through the MoT (due 1st April)... If only everything in life was as reliable as my Lotus.


Thanks Geoff, ill look into the porting, dont forget to PM the Bankinter details.
Regards
Rob
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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby Pants9210 » Sat 10.09.2016, 19:04

IMG_20160910_195247.jpg
Been digging around in the foot well and found the chip. I expected to find something saying everest but instead ive found a hand written label witha date (09/05) and the number22.
Ive attached a photo.
Because of the problems wirh large exhaust, wastegate etc i was thinking of removing it and trying the car as god intended can i just unplug it?
Anybody seen a chip like this before? :?: Help
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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sat 10.09.2016, 21:31

That is the Memcal! It has all of the code that makes the car run. Without it, nothing electronic: Ignition or Fuel Injection will function. It appears someone reprogrammed the primary chip (the one with the tape label). You will either need to reprogram it back to 1499 (S2) spec or get a "closed loop" kit from Alan which will restore it to the original program.

FYIm the other half of the memcal is the basic failure running system for "limp home" capability.
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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby Pants9210 » Sun 11.09.2016, 08:16

Looks like ive opened a can of worms :bonk: Wish i"d never looked.
I think ill have to go for the porting option and get an Everest, at least that way i know what i'm dealing with.
This is the risk of buying with little or no document history!!!!
Thanks
Rob
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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby Pants9210 » Mon 12.09.2016, 09:48

still cant understand it!, it looks like a very early chip replacement as it has the Nº 22 on it? surely if someone had reprogrammed the original chip it would nt say Nº 22??? anyone seen one like this before??
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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Mon 12.09.2016, 13:37

As I understand it, the S2 used the 1499 chip version Memcal that was used in all of the US Fed -not Calif cars. That was around for quite a few years before the S2.

I have a few odd memcals that showed up when I was trying to put together another US 1499 ECM for the #2 project car. Some have real labels from programmers and some have hand written labels.

Did changing the Thermostat and 3 temp sensors make any difference? Are you still having to wait a long time before the car warms up?

Rather than spend money for an Everest Chip, why not buy an ElanScan reader and record a driving session and SEE what is going on?
USB ElanScan interfaces @ £50 incl. P&P - ElanScanInterfaces[AT]Gmail.com

The ElanScan will better identify the chip that is installed and from there, you can move forward.

Are you sure the wastegate is moving freely? If it is still not moving full range, you will get fuel cut off any time you really kick it.

There is also a possibility that the ELS Vacuum Solenoid Valve is defective and not regulating the wastegate correctly.
Solenoid Valves.jpg

A US Autocrossing team (LEC member ECB056) recently had their M100 start overboosting while nothing else changed and finally figured out the Solenoid valve had failed.

Part number A100L0047F £12.17 in the current Lotus Price Guide and still available.

To test, you could swap the EGR Solenoid Valve with the ELS Solenoid Valve. They are side by side and are the same part number so completely interchangeable - left side inner fender, just like the picture.

The ELS Vacuum Solenoid Valve is what the ECM regulates to prevent overboost.
Test ELS.jpg


The manuals are available by clicking the link at the bottom of this post.
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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby Pants9210 » Mon 12.09.2016, 14:11

Ive just received all the sensors and thermostat but waiting for cam angle hall sensor to arrive, as it all in the same area and seems that to get to sensors its easier to remove the CAS!
Ive asked Geoff to send me an Elanscan Interface cable but I think hes on holiday at the moment,

Once I get all the above I can start to rule things out,

I´ll swap over the EGR with the ELS (good advice) and rule that out, if I still get the code 31 and it cuts out i´ll do a wastegate wiggle.

I took the car out yesterday for a run and whats more anoying is the stalling at the first few sets of trafficlights, the revs just drop right off when you dip the clutch especially when cold but also does the same after a long motorway run so I am still hoping its the sensors or a stat / temperature issue.

Once I get the elanscan sorted life will become clearer!! :banghead:
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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Mon 12.09.2016, 14:22

I would NOT change the CAS HES. You really want to change things one at a time and see if anything changes. Changing multiple things will only confuse your diagnosis.

Since you are NOT getting a HES error code, save it until you need it. You can change the thermostat and other sensors without removing the CAS. You should leave it exactly where it is right now until you get past the thermostat and sensors testing.

You don't need to physically swap the Solenoid valves, just swap the wires and vacuum lines where they currently sit. That way, you don't have a lot of things to change.
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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby Pants9210 » Mon 12.09.2016, 14:58

Brit-Car-Nut wrote:I would NOT change the CAS HES. You really want to change things one at a time and see if anything changes. Changing multiple things will only confuse your diagnosis.

Since you are NOT getting a HES error code, save it until you need it. You can change the thermostat and other sensors without removing the CAS. You should leave it exactly where it is right now until you get past the thermostat and sensors testing.

You don't need to physically swap the Solenoid valves, just swap the wires and vacuum lines where they currently sit. That way, you don't have a lot of things to change.



Ok, ill leave the CAS until I need it, Ill do the ELS / EGR first and if needs be a Wiggle, ill let you know thanks appreciate the help
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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby LotusEnthusiast » Mon 17.10.2016, 21:39

This is the same thing that has been happening to me. I've replaced both coils and ignition module. I have a piper 2.25 exhaust with everest. It looks like I'll need to port the wastegate this winter to get rid of this problem. I saw that you said something about disconnecting the battery makes the ECU weaker... Is this true? Reason I ask, is that I have a drain on my battery and I have to disconnect it every time I stop driving the car. The battery drains within 2 days max if I don't disconnect it.
I could take the Chip out which would solve my problem temporarily I guess but porting the wastegate looks like the way to go this winter.
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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby CalElan » Wed 19.10.2016, 22:33

I have a battery cut-off on mine as I connect to a battery conditioner when the car is stood.
The ECU does 'learn', but it's a quick learner.. I also have a fan over-ride to switch the main fans on- My garaging routine is usually turn the fans on as I pull up to, and reverse into the garage to ensure the engine is nice and cool.
Kill the ignition.
Wait for a count of 10 for the IAC to be reset to a known position, then flip the cut-off.
Open the trunk and plug in the battery conditioner..
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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby Pants9210 » Thu 20.10.2016, 13:35

Brit-Car-Nut wrote:As I understand it, the S2 used the 1499 chip version Memcal that was used in all of the US Fed -not Calif cars. That was around for quite a few years before the S2.

I have a few odd memcals that showed up when I was trying to put together another US 1499 ECM for the #2 project car. Some have real labels from programmers and some have hand written labels.

Did changing the Thermostat and 3 temp sensors make any difference? Are you still having to wait a long time before the car warms up?

Rather than spend money for an Everest Chip, why not buy an ElanScan reader and record a driving session and SEE what is going on?
USB ElanScan interfaces @ £50 incl. P&P - ElanScanInterfaces[AT]Gmail.com

The ElanScan will better identify the chip that is installed and from there, you can move forward.






Are you sure the wastegate is moving freely? If it is still not moving full range, you will get fuel cut off any time you really kick it.

There is also a possibility that the ELS Vacuum Solenoid Valve is defective and not regulating the wastegate correctly.
Solenoid Valves.jpg

A US Autocrossing team (LEC member ECB056) recently had their M100 start overboosting while nothing else changed and finally figured out the Solenoid valve had failed.

Part number A100L0047F £12.17 in the current Lotus Price Guide and still available.

To test, you could swap the EGR Solenoid Valve with the ELS Solenoid Valve. They are side by side and are the same part number so completely interchangeable - left side inner fender, just like the picture.

The ELS Vacuum Solenoid Valve is what the ECM regulates to prevent overboost.
Test ELS.jpg


The manuals are available by clicking the link at the bottom of this post.


Well surprise surprise I popped the bonnet to do the ELS / EGR swap and find that Ive only got one (is that normal on EU cars?) also seems to be missing something on the top of it? (see photo) also have another blue plug hanging from the wiring harness beneith it and a few more plugs un connected as well.

Does anybody know if the EU cars had an ELS valve,
Ps what does ELS stand for????
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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby Pants9210 » Thu 20.10.2016, 13:43

Sorry hacked the quote above by accident!

Well surprise surprise I popped the bonnet to do the ELS / EGR swap and find that Ive only got one (is that normal on EU cars?) also seems to be missing something on the top of it? (see photo) also have another blue plug hanging from the wiring harness beneith it and a few more plugs un connected as well.

Does anybody know if the EU cars had an ELS valve,
Ps what does ELS stand for????
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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Thu 20.10.2016, 14:41

All turbo M100s have/had both an Evaporative Emission Control System valve EECS for the EGR valve and an ELS Electronic Load Sensing valve for the Turbo Wastegate control.

The M100 uses the same electronic valve for both jobs. They are controlled by pulse width modulation signals from the ECM.

Send pictures of the engine bay with emphasis on the Turbo and the area where the two valves are supposed to be. Maybe someone can identify what has been changed and advise on the correction.

If someone has changed the turbo to another brand, then it is possible there is a different wastegate control being employed.
Someone could also have removed the electronic wastegate control system and replaced it with a manual boost control system (MBC) of some sort.
Manual systems are fairly dumb and only modify the opening and closing of the wastegate while the Mountain chips also modify the fueling as the turbo outputs more to reduce a lean burn condition as the RPMs climb.

There are many discussions on LEC about MBC systems and how to remove them.
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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby Pants9210 » Thu 20.10.2016, 17:06

its definately the original IHI turbo but I cant find the other valve anywhere, ill take a few pictures, what I need is to be able to compare it with something so I can see what is missing.
Thanks
Rob
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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby lotusflasherman » Thu 20.10.2016, 19:09

Rob
If your turbo runs on Open Loop, (clue is there is no Oxygen sensor in the turbo), it will have an EGR vacuum solenoid relay but may not have the other EECS (Evaporative Emmission Control System) vacuum solenoid relay. Page 6 & 18 of Lotus EMK Service Notes Manual for Open Loop is useful reference and should be compared to Page 6 and Page 22 of the Closed Loop Manual. (Note the connector that would be used for the EECS relay is tied back with loom outer tape in the factory.) The EECS cars have a fuel tank that breathes through a charcoal canister to absorb vapour and the EECS 'sucks vapour' out of the canister when the engine is running to cleanse it. The 3 SE's I've had haven't had it, but don't know if S2's do..

Mine looks like this ...

EGR solenoid.jpg


The turbo boost control is handled by the Boost Control Frequency Valve that is mounted on the plate supporting the air filter canister and has a clear circular top - see photo... this is pulsed to control the extra boost as revs rise.

bost control frequency valve.jpg
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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby Pants9210 » Thu 20.10.2016, 19:47

Your a star! Ill take a look tomorrow but i think all your pics match up with my engine, but ive definately got the round top part of the EGR missing, looks like a tube should be connected there.
Cheers Rob
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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby GeoffSmith » Thu 20.10.2016, 19:53

lotusflasherman wrote:…but don't know if S2's do..

Yes they do. Mine looks like this…
Img_3984x640.jpg


…and has one of these:
Img_3986x640.jpg
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Calypso Red S2 #417

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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Thu 20.10.2016, 20:58

Pants9210 wrote:its definately the original IHI turbo but I cant find the other valve anywhere, ill take a few pictures, what I need is to be able to compare it with something so I can see what is missing.
Thanks
Rob


The tube you see is normally covered by a round filter and a cap, so not a problem right now. The replacements are A100L0047F and are currently £12.17 (Special Price) at a Lotus Dealer.
You could probably run a hose to an old-style plastic inline fuel filter and accomplish the same filtering.

I could not find the Wastegate Boost Frequency Controller in any of the parts books as well as on DeRoure but I finally found the Wastegate Boost Frequency Controller is A100E6080F and is currently £27.04 (Special Price)at a Lotus Dealer.

To test the wastegate controller, you only need to plug the line that is coming from the "Tee" fitting on the wastegate capsule. The Wastegate Frequency Controller bleeds off the boost pressure at the wastegate capsule so the wastegate doesn't open fully which increases the boost. If the valve fails "open", then all the pressure going to the capsule from the intake disappears and there is no pressure to open the wastegate so you end up with overboost and engine cut out.

boost-valve.jpg
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Re: TURBO CUTS AND ENGINE LIGHT COMES ON

Postby Pants9210 » Fri 21.10.2016, 08:48

GeoffSmith wrote:
lotusflasherman wrote:…but don't know if S2's do..

Yes they do. Mine looks like this…
Img_3984x640.jpg


…and has one of these:
Img_3986x640.jpg


Hi Geoff, you got the opposite to what ive got (no ELS or O2 sensor on mine)
Thanks
rob
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