Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repair

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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Thu 08.02.2018, 21:13

The YG does "loop" per the wiring diagram:
IMG_0257-small.jpg
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby JusNoGood » Thu 08.02.2018, 21:31

Sorry I dont understand :) When I count the wires I see 5 in the diagram. I must be reading it wrong but not sure how?

Screen Shot 2018-02-08 at 18.58.04.png


What do you mean by loop? (first time I've bothered reading a electrical diagram so learning it all :oops: :P ).
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Thu 08.02.2018, 21:47

Black: Earth
Yellow / Green: Power

Yellow / Purple: Down LS
Yellow / Orange: Down RS

Yellow / Brown: UP LS
Yellow / White: UP RS

The combining splices for the Yellow / Green and also the Earth (Black) each share a connection on a socket and just loop across to the other plug.
The two Yellow / Green wires are at the top rear of the plug.
IMG_0251b-small.JPG
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby JusNoGood » Thu 08.02.2018, 22:05

Ah perfect :) yes thats what I was expecting. I'll let you know how I get on over the weekend :-D

Really appreciate the help and pics. Thanks.
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby JusNoGood » Fri 09.02.2018, 15:38

Ran out of time in my lunch hour today but the mystery of the extra unconnected red and yellow wires has been solved...The whole lot was taped up with the red/YP tip showing so it looked like they was two separate wires soldered together but not connected to anything...obviously not :D

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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby JusNoGood » Fri 09.02.2018, 18:55

Ok. So this evening I did the following....

I removed the middle red and black bits of wire and replaced them with a single 18 gauge yellow wire. connected a switch and right window didn't work (moved switch over to left and left window worked). I took out the tunnel and did check to see if there were any more breaks/patches. I couldn't see any.

I switched over the relays. So I moved over both the left relays (up&down) to the right and the right to the left. Unfortunately no difference. Left window still works. Right window does not. Double and treble checked all relays to make sure I had pushed them in properly. I had, still not working. So not the relays.

- With my multimeter I checked the left switch socket with the ignition on and I got a 11.5v from the YG - which I'd expect.

- I then tested the right switch socket. The YG gave me 11.5v - again as I'd expect.

I'm not quite sure why when I test the wires to the window motors I get 3v from both the up and down on the left and I get 9v from the up and left on the right. I double and treble checked this. When I typed this I still wants convinced so went out and checked again and same result. Is that normal and do you get that too?

Are there any other tests you would recommend before I take the door panel off?
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Fri 09.02.2018, 21:01

OK.
Please see the picture below

Since you know where the relays are, can you hear a relay "Click" when you activate the RH window switch?

If not, test the DOWN relay socket:

The relay has the pin numbers on the bottom side. Match the connector number with the pin number.

Connection 85 and 87A should always have a good earth (test light clip or meter pos to power and probe or meter neg to connection)

Connection 87 should always have 12V (test light clip or meter neg to earth and probe or meter pos to connection)

What do you find?

Window relays2.jpg
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby JusNoGood » Fri 09.02.2018, 21:14

Brit-Car-Nut wrote:OK.
Please see the picture below

Since you know where the relays are, can you hear a relay "Click" when you activate the RH window switch?

If not, test the DOWN relay socket:

The relay has the pin numbers on the bottom side. Match the connector number with the pin number.

Connection 85 and 87A should always have a good earth (test light clip or meter pos to power and probe or meter neg to connection)

Connection 87 should always have 12V (test light clip or meter neg to earth and probe or meter pos to connection)

What do you find?

Window relays2.jpg


:bowdown:

I'll try and hear out for a click tomorrow. I think I'll have to get my head into the footwell to hear it. I'll report back.
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby JusNoGood » Sat 10.02.2018, 10:51

In my fiddling around I must have pushed something. My right headlight pod is out of sync with the left now :oops: So when headlights are off the right pod is up. When I turn the headlights on the left raises, the right goes down.

Can you please tell me what I have to do to get it back in sync....must be easy but cant find an obvious instruction in the electrical manuals.
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby JusNoGood » Sat 10.02.2018, 11:34

Brit-Car-Nut wrote:OK.
Please see the picture below

Since you know where the relays are, can you hear a relay "Click" when you activate the RH window switch?

If not, test the DOWN relay socket:

The relay has the pin numbers on the bottom side. Match the connector number with the pin number.

Connection 85 and 87A should always have a good earth (test light clip or meter pos to power and probe or meter neg to connection)

Connection 87 should always have 12V (test light clip or meter neg to earth and probe or meter pos to connection)

What do you find?

Window relays2.jpg


I found it tricky hearing the clicks for the relays for either window. Mainly due to the very noisy click of the actual switch.

I did put my finger on the relays, press the switch and felt the click. I compared the left to the right relays and the ups to the down relays multiple times and they all click. The clicks are all the same strength too.

The odd thing though is that when I press down on the switch it doesn't activate the down relay. It activates the up one on the diagram you posted.
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby JusNoGood » Sat 10.02.2018, 12:24

Its tricky checking to make sure the wires are correctly connected to the right connections of the window switch. I'm suspicious of this as it's obviously been fiddled with previously and repaired.

I've drawn out the wires and how they connect to the socket. So the wires come down and connect into each of those four segments I've drawn. I've drawn the lip on one side of the socket too so you can see where the wires are connected into the socket. The black one for example plugs into one of the connections next to the lip (if that make sense).

Trying to compare my drawing to your photo. I'm not quite sure if mine is wired correctly as I cant confidently say where the lip is on your photo. It doesn't look like your black wire is going into the connection I've drawn mine going into.

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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby GeoffSmith » Sat 10.02.2018, 14:46

If the LED is on in the switch then the supply to the plug is correct so no need to sorry unduly about the switch connections. The worst that can happen is that the window goes up instead of down and vice versa.
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sat 10.02.2018, 18:30

Justin, just go to the RH Down Relay and test as I described.

You could also (make sure you are working with DOWN relay) touch connector 30 in the socket with a 12V feed and the window should go down.

If not, then you need to get to the window motor and see what you find. Since other circuits have been tampered with, maybe something was attempted to modify the window operation and not returned to normal. one of the feed wires to the motor (or both) could be disconnected (unplugged).
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby JusNoGood » Sat 10.02.2018, 18:37

Brit-Car-Nut wrote:Justin, just go to the RH Down Relay and test as I described.


I did the click test and it was fine (although a different relay than the diagram, Do you mean do the volt & negative test?


Brit-Car-Nut wrote:You could also (make sure you are working with DOWN relay) touch connector 30 in the socket with a 12V feed and the window should go down.


How would I do that? Would I just bridge with a bit of wire from 87 to 30?
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby GeoffSmith » Sat 10.02.2018, 20:58

JusNoGood wrote:How would I do that? Would I just bridge with a bit of wire from 87 to 30?

You could but the motor is low impedance and very inductive so you're liable to get a lot of arcing and sparking which is not nice in the Lotus position so wear eye protection.
Personally, I would remove both relays and measure the resistance between the sockets corresponding to relay pin 30 - it should be a low resistance.
Oh and before you do, do the lights dim / volts drop when you press the up switch?
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby JusNoGood » Sat 10.02.2018, 21:07

Yuck don’t like the sound of that.

Do the headlights dim when I press down on the window switch?
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sat 10.02.2018, 21:10

The volt and neg test will help you to know if the problem is before or after the relay. If it is after, then there is a bulkhead/harness connection in the "A" pillar that feeds the door motor and the mirror. It is a pain to get to it so I would confirm the relay socket has the correct feeds.

A regular shop would have a long test wire with alligator clips as well as a test light which has a probe end and an alligator clip. I would locate a good +12V source and connect the long test wire to it (being mindful you don't want to short out the other end on anything metal) and then use he probe from the test light to connect to the relay socket plug 30 and then touch the test wire clip to the probe and the window should start moving down. I might even make up a test lead with a blade end that I could plug into the socket and then not have to worry about the test probe moving while I did the motion test.

I have a supply of connectors, both male and female, lots of wire, wire crimps and crimping tools. You will find a lot of uses for a decent LONG test wire with alligator clips as well as a decent test light if you want to continue testing electrical systems. Meters are fine for bench work, but you only have two hands and you don't want to have to try to make connections, then get distracted by trying to read a meter. A test light turns on when voltage is found.

This is what I mean by a test light:

test-light.jpg
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby JusNoGood » Sat 10.02.2018, 21:23

Thanks very much.

I'm finding this very interesting and I"m keen to learn more. I have a pot of various different alligator clips now. I'll get a light ordered along with a length of wire capable of going from car battery to the headlights and a mixture of connectors. That should do it :)
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby JusNoGood » Sat 10.02.2018, 21:27

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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sat 10.02.2018, 21:29

Yes
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