Slider Replacement

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Slider Replacement

Postby basher » Sun 13.01.2019, 11:58

Hi All,

I am replacing the electric window slider inside the passenger side door as I noticed that it was a bit worn and could partly be the culprit for my occasional sticking window.
It would be fair to say that removal of the middle rail to which the motor is attached is about as much fun as gangrene. The only thing that stopped me from breaking things was listening in the garage to Ipswich actually win a game on Radio Suffolk. I'd begun to forget what that feels like.....
Anyway, not the middle rail is out and on the bench, I can see that there is a bar at both ends to stop the slider coming off that is part of the top and bottom brackets which attach to the rail and mount the wheel and cable attachments. The only way to get around this appears to be to drill out the spot welds on one end, remove the old slider and attach the new before welding it back up again. Before I do this, I just wanted to check that there is nothing easy that I have overlooked that you can do instead, before I get this outsourced to someone.

I have checked WIKI and a lot of the 'Door and Windows' forum. As far as I can see the 'slider replacement' is mentioned in what to do if your door window doesn't work but not actually covered ( I could have totally missed it, I'm sure). The before and after photo's that are there appear to show fresh welds on one of the ends so I'm assuming that I'm right on this one, but I wanted to check.
Thanks in advance.

Mike
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Re: Slider Replacement

Postby par » Sun 13.01.2019, 12:50

I seem to remember straightening out a right angle stop tab with pliers at one end of the rail to allow the new slider to slide on and then refold the tab back to act as stop.

I will check my photos and see if any refresh my memory.
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Re: Slider Replacement

Postby par » Sun 13.01.2019, 13:00

This photo shows the tabs at either end that can be straightened to fit the new slider and then refolded:-

Image

Hope this helps!
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Re: Slider Replacement

Postby basher » Sun 13.01.2019, 13:28

Ok, I didn't think that would be possible, but it's definitely the easier option, so I'll give it a bash.
Another complication is that the bottom spring/tensioner is badly corroded so I will need to address that whilst I'm here as I don't want to be doing this again.
Thanks for help
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Re: Slider Replacement

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sun 13.01.2019, 14:44

basher wrote:Another complication is that the bottom spring/tensioner is badly corroded so I will need to address that whilst I'm here as I don't want to be doing this again.
Thanks for help

If nobody has a spare spring available to help you, I had a bunch made up since I was seeing a lot of regulators with broken or no tensioners at all. I made up a few replacement tensioners to make the regulators I had usable and I have lots of spare springs left over. There is a company advertising rebuilding the regulators on eBay and they are using metal (aluminum I believe) replacements as part of their service. I made mine out of acetal which is a Delrin type plastic but less hygroscopic.

I assume the postage will be more than the value of the spring so maybe someone closer to you has a failed regulator and will offer one from that.
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Re: Slider Replacement

Postby basher » Sun 13.01.2019, 14:46

Thanks Par!!
That, was far easier than I thought. I don't know why I looked to overcomplicate that!!
Anyway, all fitted and gave me a great opportunity to fix the rusted spring which turned out to be broken too and no doubt part of my issue.
Now reassembly.....
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Re: Slider Replacement

Postby par » Sun 13.01.2019, 21:00

That's great news, its definitely not a job you want to be doing too often!

Hope the scrapes on your knuckles heal soon :wink:
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Re: Slider Replacement

Postby basher » Sun 13.01.2019, 23:31

Thanks for the offer of a spring, I had one in the junk (useful things I keep) in the garage as luck would have it.
After a bit of an initial struggle getting the top bolt of the regulator rail back in, everything has gone back together ok. Just trying to fettle the position of all of the tracks now as I still have a slow down in the middle of the door when the window is going down, but not going up.
I've already moved a long cable that led to nowhere out of the way and have to put the brushing back where it's come away but I think this issue has got to be all about the positioning of the three channels although lubrication has helped.

No knuckle damage but I lived in constant fear of the glass sliding down on my fingers!!!
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F@%king Window!!!

Postby basher » Fri 08.02.2019, 18:37

Really trying my patience now.
Initially my passenger window was getting jammed half way as is not uncommon.
I had taken the door card off and determined that there was a bit of play in the slider which I thought may cause some issue, so I took that out and replaced it.
I noticed that the front channel top bolt wouldn't pull up tight and the channel pivoted slightly as the window went up, so I put a new bolt and nut on and tightened that.
Window still jammed.
I then noticed that the sikaflex that sticks the boss plate to the window had come lose and it was pivoting as it went up. So I re-stuck it.
Then I noticed that the slider bosses were loose so I tightened them a bit.
Reassembled the bloody thing and it still jams.
Moved all the adjustment for the front and back channel and it still jams.
Replaced all the little rollers and taken them out again and it still sodding jams.

So basically I have at some point changed ALL the plastic on the centre channel butterfly clip, slider etc.
Reglued on the plate for the slider bosses and both tightened and loosened off the sliders
Lubricated the crap out of the channels.
Made sure the little brushes aren't getting in the way.
Bent the bobbin holders in a fraction to ensure they aren't touching the window.
And it won't bloody work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It comes down absolutely fine. It starts to come up and then stops half way. The back edge seems to be slower at coming up than the front edge in their respective channels and jams it.. If you grab the glass and pull it up at the back then it will work. The channels are clear. The window doesn't seem to be coming up square and its causing an issue. Motor seems willing. I have pivoted the top of the back channel in and out from the adjustment point but it still jams.
Can someone tell me what spacers they have where on the various channels in a window that works? I'm aware that the channels have adjustment possibilities but whatever I do, its not playing. Interestingly, the glass can't be that free as Ive not had to worry about losing my fingers- it hasn't dropped savagely yet.

Please help me someone. If I can't fix this soon its going to be academic as I will put my foot through it..........!!!!"!
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Re: Slider Replacement

Postby wayne » Fri 08.02.2019, 18:46

Just a thought...
How good is the gear inside the regulator? I've seen a couple that were worn out and window would not go through full travel.

If needed I may have a spare regulator or gears.
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Re: Slider Replacement

Postby basher » Sat 09.02.2019, 09:39

I didn't check that when I had it out and I probably should have done.
Is it possible wear or play in the regulator pivots the glass forward before it goes up leaving the rear of the glass behind slightly?
The other thing I'm thinking is perhaps the sliders are incorrect heights slightly?
I really am grabbing at straws. At this rate I'm going to have to buy a complete new door with everything in situ already!!!!
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Re: Slider Replacement

Postby wayne » Sat 09.02.2019, 18:16

Front and rear sliders do wear out. I had to replace mine as window would tilt and jam. They can cause window to jam up. Maybe a squirt of oil down the sliders would help them. It would help determine if this is the cause.

I seem to think that Pinky wrote a good thread on window problems concerning the sliders.
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Re: Slider Replacement

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sat 09.02.2019, 18:35

Wayne, he replaced the main slider:

"So basically I have at some point changed ALL the plastic on the centre channel butterfly clip, slider etc.
Reglued on the plate for the slider bosses and both tightened and loosened off the sliders "
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Re: Slider Replacement

Postby basher » Wed 13.02.2019, 19:21

Right.
Spent a whole day on trying to get this to work. After checking the handbook and doing whatever modifications necessary which weren't many in fairness, I am happy that the glass, sliders blocks and bosses are all set up correctly.
I am also satisfied that the slider and butterfly clip on the centre channel are behaving as they should and have no damage that will cause an issue.
We were getting precisely nowhere until we adjusted the position of the slider rail and suddenly the window was passing where it had stopped before and was moving toward the top.

Where the problem lies now is in the slider channels. The front slider channel works quickly and smoothly, whereas the rear one the lags behind and eventually jams the glass. We believe that at some point, I has got warped out of shape as subtly twisting it, seems to improve the situation. Under my ownership, the window did go up and down but has never been 100%, so I do wonder if anything has happened to it in the past.

See the photo the inside of my door below. Does this look standard? The metal bar/strut looks like someone has added it afterward.

ImageIMG_2651 by Michael Baldwin, on Flickr

Also there is a right angle bracket attached to the channel half way down with a mounting hole with nothing attached. Is this normal? What is attached to anyone else's? My far channel tends to pivot and twist as the window goes up and down (despite being bolted up tightly) so it would make sense if there was something to secure it halfway down.

Does anyone have a spare, passenger side, back (closest to the rear of the car) slider channel that I could buy or borrow to prove disprove this theory?
D100B0840F Guide Channel, door drop glass, rear LH (edited).

Thanks in advance
Last edited by basher on Wed 13.02.2019, 20:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Slider Replacement

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Wed 13.02.2019, 20:02

I think you need D100B0840F which is the Guide Channel, door drop glass, rear, LH

The picture you posted is the left hand (near side) door and the part number is the same for both sides of the car.

It is still available from Lotus at £55.01
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Re: Slider Replacement

Postby basher » Wed 13.02.2019, 23:24

Anyone any thoughts on that bar or what the bracket is for?
Can anyone comment on whether their channels 'flex' when the Windows go up or stay rigid?
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Re: Slider Replacement

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Thu 14.02.2019, 00:26

My doors are disassembled right now. In the morning I will go over and take a picture of the left side rear track and see if it matches yours. I will also compare it to other door bits laying around.
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Re: Slider Replacement

Postby basher » Tue 19.02.2019, 23:30

Ok, I have a resolution.
After exhaustive tinkering we determined that the rear channel was in fact twisted and, by pivoting the channel with a large spanner we were able to determine the direction needed to correct it and twist it back.
We had this fixed once, but stupidly took the glass out to re-thread lock the bolts on the blocks and refit some sliders and it didn't work afterward.
The margins involved are minimal and any slight change can change the ability for the motor to work. Coincidentally, the sliders are now removed and realistically I don't believe they make a jot of difference.
Anyway, we tried again and it's fixed.
Now to put everything back on the bloody door.
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Re: Slider Replacement

Postby roy666 » Wed 20.02.2019, 23:56

Hi Basher - I replaced both my window motors with the Peugeot 307 type 3 years ago and still all well, I took the time to take all the runners out. I then went back in to do some GRP work and new window seals; I think i was lucky because I've never had any of the nightmare porblems you seem to be having. Your right-angle bit and the bracket is definently not normal... well, in my experience anyway.. with both SE and S2. Send me a PM and happy to chat on the phone and assist with some techniques if it helps.good luck mike
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Re: Slider Replacement

Postby Steve A » Thu 21.02.2019, 00:44

viewtopic.php?f=79&t=18679&start=60

I've rebuilt mine twice over the years, it's a can of worms at the best of times, but yours doesn't look standard.
"If everything is under control, you are going too slow."
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