Replacement windscreen by Autoglass

[marky_lad]

Guys,

Took my Elan to Autoglass to have a replacement windscreen installed (insurance job).

It took about 3 months for them to get hold of the trims, but was eventually carried out on Thursday.

Collected it first thing in the morning, and thought everything was great so left with the car.

Over the weekend I have noticed that the installation is actually pretty poor. The upper trim does not sit on the glass properly and the corner trims that connect the side trims to the top trim (for want of a better expression) are pretty loose.

Furthermore there doesn't appear to be a trim at the bottom of the windscreen. I'm not too sure if there is meant to be one, but it doesn;t look finished and if you were careless could get a nasty glass cut when washing the car.

They have used loads of silicone to stick it in place and this is not ne at to say the least, with drips of it evident at the bottom of the windscreen. The pillar that the window sits on is unevenly visible on each side of the car (where the door window rests when fully up). Again they have used black silicone to fill the gaps.

Finally (I promise), they have stuck the rear view mirror on in such a way that the white adhesive used to bond it to the glass is visible from the outside and the alarm sensor has not been stuck back in the bottom right corner of the screen.

I'd really appreciate your advice on whether or not windscreen replacements on an Elan should be more professional then this. Is there a trim at the bottom of the glass?

What do you guys think I should be doing? I have notified my insurers in the meantime that I don't think the job is up to scratch.

Many thanks in advance,

Mark

[Sy V]

Mark

There is no bottom trim - but it should be sealed and tidy.
The service manual recommends changing the A-post seals as well which alleviates some of the untidiness you've experienced. The problem is getting the fitters to agree to change the seals and sourcing the seals themselves.

Bottom line: Sounds like the job's below par.

[marky_lad]

Thanks for the speedy response.

Could I ask for your opinion on what I should be doing?

With regards to the bottom of the screen should this sit on the plastic part where the wipers are attached, or should this (as is in my case) sit about 10mm above it?

Hope this makes sense.

Mark

[Nige]

I'm still waiting for Autoglass to replace the screen on my NA, the hold up is the availability of A post seals which I have agreement to replace but are not currently available. I'm going to have to go ahead as the MOT is due before the seals are forecast to be available and it will not pass with the size of crack I have. I will be a right pain in the a**e at my local Autoglass to ensure they do it right. If I were you I would complain to your insurers and tell them not to pay Autoglass until the job is completed to your satisfaction. If I understand correctly your last question it sounds as though the screen is positioned correctly they've just been sloppy with the detailing. They are supposed to mask the area of the screen where the mirror mounts and use some black stuff on it so the glue of the fixing is concealed. If you download the manuals and service bulletins from here the specific details are all included I have already presented a copy to Autoglass.

[Mike_H]

Mark,
with regards to the bottom of the windscreen sitting 10m/m above the plastic part where the wipers fit .

Have a look at mine 3m/m is the biggest gap.

[Rambo]

IIRC, Stevo and others have also had problems with the fitting of the windscreens by the Autoglass cowboys.

Mark

Edited Just found the link http://lotuselancentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4915

[Guest]

Fantastic advice, cheers guys.

I've contacted autoglass who will come and take a look tomorrow.

Can you let me know where I can download information that may be of use to them or back my arguement?

Once again thanks,

Mark

[Nige]

At the top of this page (just below the Lotus Elan Central Banner) are a series of links, Home, repairs etc. Click on the one titled manuals and this will take you to another page. You need to submit a request to download the manuals and in response to this you will be given a seperate password and user name to access this section of the site. Once you have these you can download the treasure trove that is there.

[Guest]

Mine doesn't appear to have a link for manuals, the options are:

Home
Repairs
Upgrades
Gallery
Buy & Sell
Meets & Events
Contact

Can't seem to find a link anywhere within them.

Mark

[Nige]

That's because you're not logged in and as a guest some of the facilities of the site are denied to you.

[chris.t]

had my screen changed by Lakeside engineering and they did a brilliant job. Spose it's because they've done it before know what parts need changing and have substantionally more skill and nonse than the average autoglass fitter. I know its an insurance job but if you explain to your insurers that a Lotus Elan is not your average car and that it would be far more successful for both parties to get the repairs done at a reputable Lotus specialist they generally understand

[RatHead]

Mark - Im from Leeds as well and late last year had my windscreen done. It was done at a place in Bradford called Nationwide Autoglazing under insurance - one chap there was very experienced with them as he used to do them all the time for JCT600 the A post seals and all the trims were replaced without me having to even ask. You could take it along to them and see what they think of the job?

Alternatively - you could call Chris Foulds - I think when he has an Elan in that needs a new windscreen they send them to Autoglass in Huddersfield - so you could tell whoever did yours to ask them for advice.

[Dico]

the A post seals and all the trims were replaced without me having to even ask.

Blimey, theres a rare statement. The only way for me to get my A post seals replaced was to pay Christopher Neils £1130 and then claim it back from my insurers - Footman and James

I was'nt 100% happy with the final job but compared to some of the horror stories i dont suppose i fared too badly.

Its all to easy to be soft and accept it, but if its your pride and joy they have abused i would make a fuss and let your insurers know.

Your the customer.

Good luck

[livelife686]

Mark, that seems so scary. I have been planning for a windshield repair this weekend and sought help from the internet for advices when I came through this post. Wondering what i should do now.

[Specky]

Wot R U aving probs with?

TTFN

[saska]

Over the weekend I have noticed that the installation is actually pretty poor. The upper trim does not sit on the glass properly

If this allows water in then the alloy screen support will corrode and the corrosion powder will show through the blacked out part of the screen. The upper screen trim is supposed to embed itself into the bonding seal to prevent this which is why the upper trim should be fitted to the screen and then the bonding bead should be applied next to it.

and the corner trims that connect the side trims to the top trim (for want of a better expression) are pretty loose.

The corner caps are no longer available but cleaning up the sikaflex/bonding material off old, thin plastic is not easy without damaging them. I did mine with a surgical scapel. Additionally before they are fitted the corner space under them needs to be filled with sikaflex 221 and then the corner caps should be taped in place.

Furthermore there doesn't appear to be a trim at the bottom of the windscreen.

There isn't one around the bottom -- rather there is a depression in the fibreglass where the screen fits. Note there are supposed to be 4 plastic spacers evenly spaced round the bottom edge of the screen to maintain sufficient thickness of bonding sealer. If this has not been done and the bonding layer is too thin then the screen may crack under chassis flexing. The Elan may be rigid but it still has flex.

They have used loads of silicone to stick it in place and this is not ne at to say the least, with drips of it evident at the bottom of the windscreen.

The bonding material is specific and is a Sikaflex product though I don't have the number to hand. Also the glass primer is specific and a Sika product.

The pillar that the window sits on is unevenly visible on each side of the car (where the door window rests when fully up). Again they have used black silicone to fill the gaps.

The seals are held in alloy carriers which must be spaced from the alloy A pillars by washers to get the seal in correct alignment with the door window. In general you want more washers at the top of the seal carrier down to 1 or none at the bottom.

Finally (I promise), they have stuck the rear view mirror on in such a way that the white adhesive used to bond it to the glass is visible from the outside

It is possible to black out an area of screen to stop this but I didn't bother. The mirror doesn't fit on the blacked out band.

and the alarm sensor has not been stuck back in the bottom right corner of the screen.

Sounds like a sloppy job.
I'd have some fairly specific questions:
1. What screen bonding material was used?
2. what glass primer was used?
3. Were the 4 plastic spacers used along the front edge of screen?
4. What was used to seal up the rest -- if it isn't Sikaflex 221 then it fails.
5. Were spacing washers used on the alloy seal carriers?
6. Take it to a car wash put the wand onto the top of the roof near the centre front -- do the A pillar seals leak? I wouldn't expect them to seal if you direct a high pressure hose directly onto the window/seal but they should seal in rain.

As you can probably tell I've just done a screen myself. My problem was there was corrosion on the top (matte black) part of the screen support where the hood seal engages and there was corrosion to top & bottom corners of both A pillars under the windscreen but showing through the blacked out band. Additionally I'd replaced the hard-to-obtain A pillar seals about 4 months before so wanted to try to re-use these if possible. So needed to remove seals without damaging them, remove cracked screen, clean up alloy, repaint, had to clean up and paint the alloy seal carriers as well and replaced the rusted spacing washers with stainless ones. Whole job was a bit of a pain -- you can piano wire the top and sides easily but the bottom is very hard without damageing the dashboard. Ended up cutting the bonding with a curved surgical scalpel. Refitting the seals is very much a question of fitting the seal to the carrier and then offering it up to check the seal against the door window and then estimating the washer thickness required to space the carrier from the A pillar. Turned out my 2 sides were different but that is the joy of a hand made car. Top rail is now lovely, think it will be a long time before the alloy A pillars rot and the car now leaks nearly no water.
I could have either paid Autoglass or got the insures to pay but did my first bonded screen because I wanted a good job.

Your main problem now is you want someone experienced to do the screen probably a Lotus agent (which doesn't guarantee a good job) but Autoglass are unlikely to want to pay a Lotus agent the thick end of 1K to fix their mistake. Bear in mind that very few of the materials are reusable, So if the job has to be re-done then you need windscreen, top finisher, 2 X side finishers, 4 bottom edge spacers, correct bonding agent, correct glass primer and also 2 A pillar seals & 2 top corner caps (neither of the last 2 are currently available). It is possible to remove A pillar seals without damaging them but not easy or likely. So you may be able to persuade Autoglass that having a Lotus Agent do the job will work out cheaper than having their numpties do it badly again.

I made a note of the Sika windscreen bonding and primer numbers but they're with the car which has just passed MOT but is still at the garage. I'll post them when I get a chance to collect the car.

[HJ2]

Note to self:

Never ever break your windscreen

[GeoffSmith]

Over the weekend I have noticed that the installation is actually pretty poor........

If this allows water in ........

I nominate Tony for one of RayD's awards - Excellent and informative post but maybe a bit late for Mark!

Don't worry Tony, I've done it myself.

[saska]

If this allows water in ........

Damn -- didn't note the date...

I nominate Tony for one of RayD's awards - Excellent and informative post but maybe a bit late for Mark!
Don't worry Tony, I've done it myself. :lol:

Just got back from beating my head against a wall

[GeoffSmith]

On a serious note, it's good information and maybe worthy of a Wiki entry....