Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repair

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Re: Window Regulator Motor Replacement?

Postby epipete » Tue 28.01.2014, 12:01

Hi, this is potentially useful but I'm a bit unclear as to what you actually did and what replacement item you used.

Can you provide a bit more detail please.
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Re: Window Regulator Motor Replacement?

Postby Aoki Magic Pants » Mon 10.02.2014, 00:45

This is the replacement that I used:

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-405-DT-92-96-N-S-front-electric-window-regulator-passenger-left-277-/390703949207?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Car+Make%3APeugeot%7CModel%3A405&hash=item5af7c52597

The actual motor that I needed didn't fit into the Lotus unit as I hoped it would, but I managed to cannibalize the regulator unit to fit the Lotus cable & spindle with relatively little effort.

I had to cut a slit in to the metal tubes where the wire enters/exits the spindle housing & I removed the Peugeot spindle and cable. I then inserted my existing Lotus spindle and cable into the Peugeot unit and then wound the cable tight back onto the Lotus channel slider. The Peugeot regulator is the correct size to fit the fixings & I just screw it back into the door.
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Enright » Mon 10.02.2014, 15:17

Very useful additional info to Specky's original post (thanks Aoki :)), so I thought it would be worth consolidating the new posts into the sticky topic.
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Faraday » Mon 30.06.2014, 12:30

Hi all, a bit of advice please.
Drivers door window butterfly snapped about 18 months ago, the thin bit that bends round, so got a new one and had it fixed. Something went bang the other day in the drivers door, have taken it to bits and see that the new butterfly is twisted and some bits of plastic have broken off, plus as you look at the bottom of the middle strut, the cable doesn't go around the white nylon pully, which I am assuming here that it should do.
Have released the bottom bracket but cannot seem to stretch the cable back over the pully, is there a way of releasing the tension just a bit more, I think it only needs about another 3mm clearance to stretch over it? Plus should I fit the new butterfly first or after the cable is back on the pulley? (Reluctant to dismantle it all as shown in the video of the blue Elan, unless I have to :? )
Many thanks in eager anticipation.
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Enright » Mon 30.06.2014, 15:55

Um, if you've got bits of broken plastic in there then I think there's going to be little option but to get the entire assembly out to see where they've come from and what needs replacing.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but in the long term, fixing the entire assembly outside the door and then transplanting it back in is going to be your best bet.
At least that way you can prove it works properly, rather than half-bodging it and just having to do it all again when it fails. :(
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Faraday » Mon 30.06.2014, 16:24

Hi Neil, the broken plastic appears to be from the white butterfly thing that slides up and down the middle runner, am I correct in assuming that the butterfly fits into the back of the runner and the cable somehow goes up through it? If so, is it possible to slide a new butterfly in there from the bottom, when I get the old one out? (I don't think the replacement butterfly was fitted correctly) Also should the butterfly be vertical, mine is at about a 45 degree angle?
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Fredjohn » Mon 30.06.2014, 16:51

Sorry to give you further bad news but Neil is right: you will have to take the whole lot out of the door, as per Specky's excellent video.

There are TWO bits of plastic: the butterfly which merely holds the window to the runner/slider and the slider itself, which runs up and down the middle runner and also retains both ends of the cable.

On mine it was the slider which broke, releasing the end of the cable and oops down dropped the window. The butterfly broke when I removed it, as is normal (?) Both items are cheap and readily available from any Lotus dealer. It is a fiddle to do, but the only way you will replace the cable over the drum, slider and pulleys is with it out of the door. You can then squeeze each end of the cable outers against the spring tensioners to ease the cable inner over the pulleys. You need 3 hands or two hands and some dextrous feet to do this, but it is possible. The cable appears too short at first, but once tensioners are squeezed all becomes possible.

Whilst ordering your slider and butterfly you will also need to get the red/orange clip which retains the door lock knob. It is virtually impossible to remove this without breaking it. And you will need to remove this to remove the door card. Double sided sticky tape from your local DIY store is also useful to replace the carpet trim on the door. Or carpet spray glue.

Good luck: but once done never forgotten!

EDIT: PS take a look at the workshop manual or spares catalogue: the pictures there are very useful to see how it all hangs together, as well as Specky's video.
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Faraday » Mon 30.06.2014, 18:15

Thanks Fredjohn, I guess you know what I'll be doing tomorrow then! :lol:
One thing to query though, I have ordered the butterfly from Paul Mattys, but are you saying there is another piece that slides up the middle or is this all part of the butterfly?
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Fredjohn » Mon 30.06.2014, 18:31

There are TWO pieces: the butterfly and the slider.
The slider is handed, so once you have established if it is damaged, make sure you order the correct one :driver (R) or passenger (L)
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Faraday » Mon 30.06.2014, 19:11

Thanks for that, will delve into the unknown tomorrow morning and see, will be watching Speckys post a few times tonight, and probably at various times tomorrow. :)
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Faraday » Tue 01.07.2014, 17:22

Does anyone have a photo they could e mail me of how the inside of the window motor spool should look? Having opened mine it appears all twisted and caught up and despite 4 attempts at re spooling the spare/slack cable it just seizes up again. Also, are there meant to be big grooves around the grey plastic spool as mine appear to be well worn, or is that normal?
Many thanks for the help so far
Gary
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Enright » Tue 01.07.2014, 18:54

I have a similar looking regulator mech from a Peugeot 206cc that I wouldn't mind comparing. There's a car meet quite local tomorrow night which I've just sent details of. I can bring it along if you like.
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby L8apex » Wed 02.07.2014, 18:53

My drivers side window is slow going up. I think my problem is the window guide channel is very dry. Does the door have to be disassembled if you want to lubricate the window guide channels? Is there anything better than silicone spray to lube the channel? thanks...
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Enright » Wed 02.07.2014, 22:44

You're best off getting the interior trim off and using something like Silkopen graphite spray in the runners.
Attack it before it gets any worse as if cables start to fray and break it gets expensive and messy.
Preventative maintenance is the key.
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Faraday » Thu 03.07.2014, 13:29

Help please (again).

I have this morning received a new window motor assembly from PMs and to my delight and surprise, after an hour or so manouvring fitted it into the drivers door cavity :D . Then I went to plug the orange connector back in, to find it wasn't compatible with the replacement part :evil:
Have spoken to Clive at PMs who was surprised, he went and checked with the service chaps and then said that's correct, all of the replacement units have a different connector, which as you have guessed they do not sell the plug for it :roll:
Bearing in mind it has a 20 amp fuse, I bought some 15 amp spade connectors but these are way too big to fit into the new part. Thought about swapping the old connector onto the new part but decided against it as didn't want to break new part at £250.

Has anyone fitted a new window mechanism and if so how did you power it up?

Many thanks

Gary (the one with extremely sore knuckles and empty bank balance :lol: )
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Enright » Thu 03.07.2014, 14:09

Can you post a pic of the plug?
If you can, and it's similar to the Pug unit, then I may have similar wiring from the 206 cc that I broke.
In which case a little bridging bit could just be made.
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Faraday » Thu 03.07.2014, 16:11

Have spoken to Clive again at PMs who has asked the mechanics what they use who state they simply crimp on 2 red spade connectors (5 amp?) so will be trying that tomorrow. Find it strange though that Lotus sell a part that is not compatible with the original wiring in the car :shock:
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby Faraday » Fri 04.07.2014, 17:59

Many thanks to all who replied/e mailed/called re my window fix, a hint for anyone else doing it, there is a black plastic cover that the motor slides into inside the door, which makes things a bit awkward to manouvre the new one into place, but having drilled out the single bottom pop rivet it gives you much easier access and from what I have seen since doesn't cause a problem.
As for the replacement connectors, they are really small red spade crimp type things (it does say I am a tinkerer :lol: ) but quite narrow as well, as there is not much room to fit 2 standard ones in the aperture.
Anyone needing to re fit their window must watch Speckys guide at the top of this post, it is so helpful and saves so much time knowing what you have to do before you start.
Also make sure you haven't dislodged the wire from the speaker when re-assembling as I have to remove the door card again tomorrow :oops:
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby wayne » Sat 05.07.2014, 20:15

Has anyone found anywhere that sells replacement gears for the regulator? I am assuming it is from a Peugeot 405? or possibly a 206?

I ended up replacing a regulator today. It seems that the worm drive has worn through the plastic gear. Probably due to the slider being badly worn and broken.

gear.jpg


Symptons were that window moved a little and then stopped and made a grinding noise :shock:

I will strip the regulator down when I get home but it would be nice to be able to order some replacement parts while I am in the UK.

Many thanks

Wayne
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Re: Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repa

Postby wayne » Sat 05.07.2014, 22:22

So. I couldn't wait untill I got home.....

The gear.

gear1.jpg
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