Window Regulator

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Window Regulator

Postby LittleRob » Mon 06.06.2016, 09:32

Not been around here for a while, but decided to get the car back on the road (after a year or so in my garage). The last thing that happened is the the passenger side window dropped down into the door.

Its been in for a service/MOT and the garage say that it needs a Window Regulator and that they can't find one. I see mentions in here that its the rear-door of a Peugeot 405. Does anyone have any suggestions of a likely source for one of these, and how compatible are they?

Many thanks

Rob
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Re: Window Regulator

Postby lotusflasherman » Mon 06.06.2016, 10:25

LittleRob wrote:Not been around here for a while, but decided to get the car back on the road (after a year or so in my garage). The last thing that happened is the the passenger side window dropped down into the door.

Its been in for a service/MOT and the garage say that it needs a Window Regulator and that they can't find one. I see mentions in here that its the rear-door of a Peugeot 405. Does anyone have any suggestions of a likely source for one of these, and how compatible are they?

Many thanks

Rob


You need a butterfly clip, that's all. That's the clip that holds the glass on the mechanism that goes up and down. I replaced mine a couple of weeks ago with my spare one. No longer available from Lotus but being made by 3d printing ...
forum.lotuselancentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=25031
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Re: Window Regulator

Postby Paul Alexander » Mon 06.06.2016, 11:26

lotusflasherman wrote:
LittleRob wrote:Not been around here for a while, but decided to get the car back on the road (after a year or so in my garage). The last thing that happened is the the passenger side window dropped down into the door.

Its been in for a service/MOT and the garage say that it needs a Window Regulator and that they can't find one. I see mentions in here that its the rear-door of a Peugeot 405. Does anyone have any suggestions of a likely source for one of these, and how compatible are they?

Many thanks

Rob


You need a butterfly clip, that's all. That's the clip that holds the glass on the mechanism that goes up and down. I replaced mine a couple of weeks ago with my spare one. No longer available from Lotus but being made by 3d printing ...
forum.lotuselancentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=25031


i've recently purchased two of the new butterfly clips from shapeways (toby who does the m100 restoration series on youtube), and they look very good.

http://www.shapeways.com/product/2YZ633 ... d=59313039

£7.39 each (a no brainer, even if you only want them for spares). i may be fitting one this week as my passenger window rattles and is quite loose laterally. i stripped the door down yesterday, and will take the window out tonight. i will post more, with pictures in my minor project thread. i'll let folks know what the new clips are like (if i break the one thats on there that is).
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Re: Window Regulator

Postby Fredjohn » Mon 06.06.2016, 11:52

:agree:

Alternatively it may be the slider which holds the 2 ends of the cable. The butterfly attaches to this slider. Sometimes the slider wears out and the cable slips out from its groove in this slider. Part no. A100B6211S.

SJ Sports Cars list them at £1.51 each plus the usual. Link to SJ Sports Cars

Strip the mechanism out of the door and investigate thoroughly before forking out for the Peugeot part. There are some very good instructions on here, incl a short very useful video.

PS: put your location into your profile so that if you do need to get a motor you can be directed either to a potential Lotus 2nd hand bit or the Peugeot part in your area.

Good luck.
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Re: Window Regulator

Postby Dave Eds » Mon 06.06.2016, 13:00

Hi Rob

Glad you still have the car!

Pop in to the Lion and Lamb on Thursday evening. I have the aforementioned in my spares box.

Dave.
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Re: Window Regulator

Postby lotusflasherman » Mon 06.06.2016, 15:41

I've had 3 M100's and the butterfly clip has failed on the passenger side on all 3, so I'd put my money on the problem being the butterfly clip. Quite easy to see what the problem is with the door trim panel removed.
My 2nd failure was the most expensive as the glass disappeared into the door with enthusiasm and landed with a 'woompth' noise - it took me ages to get all those little bits of glass out.... :(

Be careful when driving with the glass loose inside the door, it can bang against the steel bits and you'll be picking out little bits of glass and searching for a replacement window...
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Re: Window Regulator

Postby LittleRob » Tue 07.06.2016, 08:22

Thanks for all the replies. Lets hope its something simple and cheap (It usually is with Elans isn't it ;-)

* I've updated my location, though not very precisely.
* I've passed the info along to the garage.
* Dave Eds Thanks for the offer. I'll see what the garage say first, as I've not actually seen inside the door.

If it *does* need the whole thing, does anyone have any suggestions?

Many thanks.

Rob
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Re: Window Regulator

Postby LittleRob » Tue 07.06.2016, 14:12

The latest reply from the garage reads:

Unfortunately we have drawn a dead end being able to replace the near side window regulator, I have tried various places to get the part & have discovered it is now discontinued & no stock at all the places I have tried.

We have taken the part out & wedged up the window for the time being. The other option we have is to give the part to a manufacturing company we use , they may be able to make a part or repair the existing one.


Any suggestions as to what to do? Do I get it back "as is" and try somewhere else, or let them have someone else look at it?

Is there an Essex-based (or thereabouts) Lotus specialist that would be a better bet?

Rob
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Re: Window Regulator

Postby lotusflasherman » Tue 07.06.2016, 14:38

Bring it to the Lion & Lamb on Thursday :cheers: with the door panel off and the glass held securely in place and those of us who have 'been there and got the T shirt' will have a look.

Spud - bring your spare 'butterfly' , etc ... and I'll bring my spare bits...
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Re: Window Regulator

Postby Fredjohn » Tue 07.06.2016, 15:17

:agree: Sounds by far the best starting point.
But exactly which part have the garage tried to source? The winding mechanism consists of several parts, all of which can break, some of which can be replaced (see above) and some which can be replaced with the sort of ingenuity often used by members of this site. :D
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Re: Window Regulator

Postby LittleRob » Tue 07.06.2016, 15:55

I've arranged to pick up the car "as is", though I don't yet know how much they have put it back together. I'll see if I can get along on Thursday and let you fellas take a look.
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Re: Window Regulator

Postby lotusflasherman » Tue 07.06.2016, 16:49

Fredjohn wrote:which part have the garage tried to source? The winding mechanism consists of several parts, all of which can break, some of which can be replaced (see above) and some which can be replaced with the sort of ingenuity often used by members of this site. :D


What a garage will do and what a DIY owner will do are poles apart for a number of reasons.

A garage will always try to fit a complete new unit, when only a minor component is broken, for several reasons -
They have a valid argument that if, say, one bit of plastic has broken, all the other bits of plastic of the same age may be about to fail so the customer could well be back in a couple of weeks and a bit annoyed that a problem is repeating.
They buy parts at trade and but them on the bill with a mark up so make more money for less work, while trying to replace just a component is labour intensive and requires a combination of skill and patience and may not be the cheapest option.
Customers are generally happier to pay a bill with Parts £200, Labour £200 than a bill with Parts £5, Labour £275. There's a feeling that the cost of parts has added value to the car, while labour cost is money down the drain. Total bullshit of course!

A DIY owner has a more philosophical outlook ... It is a Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious after all, and 20 years old at least ! Hand made in Narfuk too so what they can do, we can do probably do, eventually ...
The Lotus Service Manual is a good step by step guide and the Parts Manual gives exploded diagrams that shows how everything ... explodes ? :lol: -- or goes back together.

Ownership becomes a bit of a hobby so time spent on it isn't summated or costed, except by the wife or girlfriend. When things go wrong you just find the time to investigate it and then start trying to obtain the part needed. When complete new units were available, those with a bit of foresight kept the old units for the components that hadn't broken (yet) and with a bit of luck a quick fix can be achieved by rooting through the piles of 'spare old bits'...

Only problem is Sod's Law - if parts are handed, you've always got one for the other side but not the side you need...
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Re: Window Regulator

Postby LittleRob » Wed 08.06.2016, 11:36

This is how it looked last night when I got home.

Photo 07-06-2016 19 13 30(s).jpg


The door is back together, the window is up, and this was in the boot (with a bag of nuts).
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Re: Window Regulator

Postby lotusflasherman » Wed 08.06.2016, 12:01

The butterfly clip looks intact and the cable doesn't look broken though it should go round the pulley on the left. Did they say why the glass had dropped inside the door?
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Re: Window Regulator

Postby LittleRob » Wed 08.06.2016, 12:06

If I recall, it started off that the window didn't shut properly, then it would go down but not up. So when I took the car to the garage the window was fully down inside the door. They have now wedged it fully up.
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Re: Window Regulator

Postby LittleRob » Wed 08.06.2016, 13:13

I've spent lunch time reading up on various explanations of this, and it gives me the heebie-jeebies. I wish I'd never let the garage near it as now I have a complete door plus a part that I've no idea how it goes, or how it works.

I've e-mailed the garage to see if the mechanic involved can shed any light on whether its a mechanical or electrical problem.

;-(
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Re: Window Regulator

Postby Fredjohn » Wed 08.06.2016, 13:32

Assuming as Phil says butterfly and slider are intact, put cable back around the pulley. Sounds simple but is quite difficult but possible. The springs on the outer cable allow it to shorten, effectively lengthening the inner cable.
Once this is done, plug in the wires, (inside the door) and operate the up down switch. Motor should rotate and slider go up down. If nothing happens check you have 12 volts at supply plug. Check fuse too. If it works but jerkily then cable needs rewinding on its spool inside the motor. Don't try the motor without putting cable back on pulley, or it will definitely come off spool!!
Grease slider too.
If you have 12v and motor doesn't work, then it's back to your very first post I'm afraid. Try surfboardfiller or lotusbits, or Steve strange or appollo995on ebay.
If it all works OK, then problem is probably the glass guides misaligned and lacking in lubrication.
Hope this helps. Good luck.
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Re: Window Regulator

Postby Artaban » Wed 08.06.2016, 14:58

I know what a pain the windows can be but if you are having trouble repairing the regulator yourself send it off to PNM Engineering in Wallasey. Pete reconditioned mine with new cable and got it working really smoothly. It would be worth asking the mechanic if the glass went up and down freely by hand with the regulator out, i.e. were the guides still attached to the glass and sitting in the front and rear channels. I thoroughly cleaned the channels on mine and used a dry PTFE spray as greasing the sliders seemed to attract dirt and eventually the window got slower and slower. Putting the regulator back in is not difficult just fiddly.

One other point worth mentioning is that if the regulator seems to lack "strength" you may need to clean the bushes in the motor. I had what I can only describe as a weak motor when it came to winding the window up; it was uneven and jerky. Tried everything else and in the end took the motor apart, cleaned and greased everything, put it back together and it was like a new motor. No trouble since. Probably worth doing if you have the regulator out anyway.

Best of luck. Andy
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Re: Window Regulator

Postby LittleRob » Wed 08.06.2016, 15:54

I've got a reply from the garage and they say

"I have asked the technician who looked at the window, he has said the white plastic guide which holds the window to the regulator has broken."

So perhaps that's all it was then. I'll bring it along tomorrow and we can stand in the car-park of the pub and scratch our chins.

Rob
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Re: Window Regulator

Postby Fredjohn » Wed 08.06.2016, 16:02

The white plastic guide could be either the slider or the butterfly, both of which will be brought along to the meet judging by earlier posts.
Sounds like problem solved...... :D :D
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