Window slider bracket

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Window slider bracket

Postby epipete » Mon 26.09.2016, 11:36

After several months of dodgy OS window opening and closing I finally plucked up courage and patience to remove the glass and inspect/confirm the problem.

image.jpeg


The problem is that the bracket has corroded wafer thin, it has cracked/split half way across (above the nut fixing) and the adhesive has deteriorated (perhaps due to the heat out here) so as to allow play when raiding lowering the window! Does anyone have a Servicable replacement bracket?


The front of the glass is secured using only one slider, can anyone confirm that this is this correct?

Thanks

Pete
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Re: Window slider bracket

Postby GeoffSmith » Mon 26.09.2016, 12:07

You're missing a slider block (8 off item #50) B100B1097F for ~£8 from Lotus.

https://www.deroure.com/diagrams.asp?MA ... 0&ST=&SC=0
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Re: Window slider bracket

Postby Paul Alexander » Mon 26.09.2016, 12:08

hi pete. i had my passenger window out a few weeks ago and i had 2 sliders on each side of the window. you have one missing.

if you can't get hold of one (or can't find it in the bottom of the door) wayne in Bahrain (a member on here) was selling a set on ebay not long ago. it may be worth getting hold of him.
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Re: Window slider bracket

Postby dapinky » Mon 26.09.2016, 15:25

Pete,

'Pinkyspares' *may* have the bits you require.......

.... but you *may* need to fettle them......

.... in so much as you need bits for the OS window, but if I have the bits, they'll be off the NS.

Basically, when my NS window smashed in the great 'shed collapse due to gusty breeze' incident a couple of years ago I salvaged the metal bit and all the slidy bits from the debris. I know I used some of the 'best' bits from my pile and the new window, but had some left over. The metal bracket is bonded to the glass, so I chucked it into a box in the garage, still with the jigsaw puzzle of 'safety' glass bonded to it.

I'll have a look to see if I can find it, and if I can, I'll see if it appears to be 'handed' (which I'm fairly sure it will be), and if it can be mirrored in some way and thus become useful to you.
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Re: Window slider bracket

Postby dapinky » Mon 26.09.2016, 16:43

Edit -

I have found my parts, and there is both good and bad news....

the metal bit is definitely handed, and whilst it *could* be reversed, it is not a simple process - the female M4 tubes are braised on to the plate.

(a) it would be far easier to fabricate one from scratch (using a female M4 tube and a piece of flat steel)
(b) the part number A100B1234F is listed as 'Factory Order' for £26.27 (shame really, the other side (which I have) is only £3.00!!)
(c) not sure how easily the rusted bits of yours would seperate from the glass whilst keeping the glass in one piece - presumably, a 'cheese wire' type windscreen tool would need to be employed????
(d) possibly better to source a S/H window with all bits attached (nowt on ebay UK at the moment)
(e) a new window doesn't come with the plate, but is listed at SJs as available (not cheap though)

now the good news :D

I do have a worn slider block :lol: :lol: (but not the spacer/boss/washers that are needed to fit it to the glass - something could undoubtable be fabricated, or the new bits purchased).

So, basically, I'm as much use as a chocolate teapot on this ocassion :(

(personally, I'd try and get another unit with the bits attached, then mix and match with what you have already got - in the meantime, can you strengthen the rusted plate with another plate bonded on???)
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Re: Window slider bracket

Postby dapinky » Mon 26.09.2016, 17:38

Another EDIT....

.... I've now also located two of the plastic spacer bosses (1 x 7.5mm, 1 x 11mm) :D

...so my advice will change as appropriate...

What I'd do is fit the (slightly worn) spacer block with the appropriate boss, using whatever M4 screws I could find in the garage, and use some sikaflex to bond the rusty bit back to the glass, with a suitably trimmed steel plate bonded over the top to offer strength to the unit.

This will give it the best chance of temporary survival until I could source a replacement window with good bits attached :D :D

(with tongue firmly in cheek - alternatively, put a handfull of smashed safety glass in a big box marked 'fragile' and post it to myself..... then claim that it was damaged by Royal Mail and get a new one :lol: :oops: :lol: )
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Re: Window slider bracket

Postby epipete » Tue 27.09.2016, 03:26

Thanks guys, particularly Pinkyspares (I've used them before - highly recommended)

I now have the bracket off the glass, it was very loose, the ingress of water over the years had taken its toll on both fixative and metal. In actuality the bracket seems quite sturdy albeit with a massive rusted split half way up but I think it might be salvageable with, as Dave says, some additional bracing, I think it was the failure in the adhesive that allowed the play and hence the failure of the mechanism!

A point of interest though, there are 4 plastic inserts on the plate (photo below) are these simply to stop the metal actually touching the glass?

I did check the Deroure, etc web site (in anticipation of this failure) and saw the differing costs (left or right) and sent them a message seeking clarification of which side was which and availability. As yet they have not replied!

A point of consideration (for the future) if this corrosion is due to 25yrs of water ingress through the glass seal, then what about the hinges, etc, etc?

Pete
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Re: Window slider bracket

Postby dapinky » Tue 27.09.2016, 10:26

Pete,

Never having taken one off, I can't comment on the plastic spacers - there is nowt shown on P10 of Sec BK of the WM, and nowt mentioned on the write-up on P9..... but if they are part of the plate, I suppose they wouldn't be mentioned.

I am, however, wondering if the glass has been replaced in the past (hence why the plate is weakened, as the old window smashed allowing it to deform/bend??)....

.... and when replaced, the incorrect adhesive has been used, which needed some 'space' to fit it, so it ended up as it did.... and that is why it has now failed.

This could also account for the missing slider block - but is all supposition.
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Re: Window slider bracket

Postby epipete » Tue 27.09.2016, 10:56

I'm thinking that the top of the plate (the side away from the glass) should take a bit of reinforcement, I'll need to check the gap between the sliders and spacers but that seems ok.

What do you reckon for an adhesive? I don't want to be playing Hokey Cokey with the glass if I can avoid it.
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Re: Window slider bracket

Postby dapinky » Tue 27.09.2016, 11:27

epipete wrote:What do you reckon for an adhesive? I don't want to be playing Hokey Cokey with the glass if I can avoid it.


The manual states that it uses Betaseal windscreen primer and adhesive - for the quantity needed you'd maybe be better off cleaning all the old goo off and visiting the Cypriot alternative of National Winscreens and ask them to glue it together.....

(or try Sikaflex)
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Re: Window slider bracket

Postby epipete » Tue 27.09.2016, 12:42

dapinky wrote:
epipete wrote:What do you reckon for an adhesive? I don't want to be playing Hokey Cokey with the glass if I can avoid it.


The manual states that it uses Betaseal windscreen primer and adhesive - for the quantity needed you'd maybe be better off cleaning all the old goo off and visiting the Cypriot alternative of National Winscreens and ask them to glue it together.....

(or try Sikaflex)


Might be a problem then, I'll speak to my mechanic.

I found the other slider (off the front) in the channel. So I have the lower slider and the boss that fits between the glass and the channel (as well as the upper one that is still affixed to the glass. I'm not sure what is missing on the screw side of the glass though, I assume the same as the higher slider! Can you confirm which size boss goes at the top and which size goes at the bottom please Dave.

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Re: Window slider bracket

Postby dapinky » Tue 27.09.2016, 14:08

Pete,

My memory isn't as good as I used to think it was....

....but P10 of the WM gives us the following info.....

Elan M100 Service Manual v6.jpg


As an extra, did you find the small 'top hat' type bushes which fit into the hole in the glass? They locate the spacer boss and allow the whole lot to tighten up without cracking the glass (and allow a bit of movement during operation to save it breaking).

If not, all is not lost - a suitable 'makeshift' item can be formed - simply use a small circle of neoprene (or a bit of bicycle innertube) nect to the glass, then a washer, then the M4 setscrew - it will spread the load between slider and glass. You may also wish to fill the hole with a cut-down fibre/rubber washer, with a 4mm hole through it.
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Re: Window slider bracket

Postby epipete » Wed 28.09.2016, 07:24

It's another naff design, why didn't they just put appropriate holes in the glass (as they did on the front) and put the bolts straight through?

The reason for my angst is that I thought I'd fabricate the part and there are some issues with this

1. Obtaining a piece of appropriate steel (not insurmountable)
2. Obtaining a piece of female threaded m4 pipe (more of a problem, and eBay doesn't seem to have any)
3. Braising equipment (though I know a few guys here who are equipped)

Plan B!
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Re: Window slider bracket

Postby dapinky » Wed 28.09.2016, 08:39

epipete wrote:1. Obtaining a piece of appropriate steel (not insurmountable)

Quite surmountable :wink:

epipete wrote:2. Obtaining a piece of female threaded m4 pipe (more of a problem, and eBay doesn't seem to have any)

You need to search for an M4 threaded standoff - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M4x30mm-Brass ... SwbsBXjNeM

epipete wrote:3. Braising equipment (though I know a few guys here who are equipped)

epoxy adhesive? (but should be doable locally)
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Re: Window slider bracket

Postby epipete » Wed 28.09.2016, 10:26

That's interesting!

Do you think the epoxy would be strong enough, I imagine that there is quite a lot of stress on it?

The actual Spacers have a shoulder and so the brass items you are suggesting might require a short sleeve to provide for this. Alternatively, the spacers on the bracket are actually sound and should cut off (the rusty plate) and clean up nicely, so that might be the way forward.
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Re: Window slider bracket

Postby dapinky » Wed 28.09.2016, 11:28

Pete,

I don't really think that epoxy would last very well, and if using dissimilar metals, welding in't a great option - so it's back to braising.

At least that way, they can be positioned where you want them (an space them away from the metal if needed).

The ones I linked to are just an idea of the sort of thing available - there are all sorts of lengths and materials on ebay..... brass, nylon and aluminium appear to be most common.

As another thought, if the steel plate is drilled at the right place, then tapped 4mm, a thread could be screwed in and a blob of weld applied to the back surface.... a bit of a rub over with an angle grinder would leave an M4 male stud, so you could simply screw one of the brass things onto it, and then secure with some epoxy (but 'chemical metal' may be better).

Ideally, you'd locate a small engineering shop who would have no difficulty in creating exact items from a piece of steel and threading it internally before plug welding it to the plate......

...... where's Bob Brown when you need him :roll: :roll:
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Re: Window slider bracket

Postby epipete » Wed 05.10.2016, 06:37

Well, obtaining a bit of metal is proving difficult over here (afterall they don't have a steel industry of their own :roll: a bit like the Brits building our subs from French Steel 8) ) so given that the actual plate is identical for both NS and OS and the price variance so great I'm going to order two NS as £3.00 and cut off (Dremmel) and rebraise the pillars on the other side of one of them.

After that the only thing I'm missing is the plastic bush that supports the bolt and protects the glass where the bolt secures the plate and that's not a difficulty in improvising.

Looking at de roure the parts are entitled 'Guide to door bracket' (pt 27 in the dwg) numbered -

RH B100B0038F @ £10.75
LH B100B0039F @ £Contact us

Dave can you consider this, given your earlier comment '....... the part number A100B1234F is listed as 'Factory Order' for £26.27 (shame really, the other side (which I have) is only £3.00!!)' are these the right bits?

Cheers

Pete
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Re: Window slider bracket

Postby dapinky » Wed 05.10.2016, 10:14

epipete wrote:Looking at de roure the parts are entitled 'Guide to door bracket' (pt 27 in the dwg) numbered -

RH B100B0038F @ £10.75
LH B100B0039F @ £Contact us

Dave can you consider this, given your earlier comment '....... the part number A100B1234F is listed as 'Factory Order' for £26.27 (shame really, the other side (which I have) is only £3.00!!)' are these the right bits?


No - they look like the ones which hold the vertical channel to the doorframe.....

you need part #60 on the DeRoure drawing....

door parts.png
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Re: Window slider bracket

Postby epipete » Wed 05.10.2016, 13:32

:roll: Of course, silly me
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Re: Window slider bracket

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Wed 05.10.2016, 13:41

Pete:

I don't understand.You can buy BOTH sides, albeit the side you need is dearer:

A100B1233F PLATE-GLASS MOUNT LH (SP) £2.50
A100B1234F Plate-Glass Mount RH £25.02

This is from the Late September price book I have. Fabricating or converting one seems to be a lot of work and you will end up having to get someone to do the welding, so how much are you saving in the end?
I try to fix anything I can and then scrounge for the less expensive replacement. Some days, having the part in my hand - quickly, is worth a little extra cost. Doesn't your time and frustration have a value?
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