Failed MOT

Moderators: theelanman, dapinky, Elanlover, muley, Enright, algirdas, clemo, nitroman, Specky, GeoffSmith, Nige, Dave Eds, Sy V, DaveT

Failed MOT

Postby Quantum2001 » Sun 07.07.2019, 15:25

I'm relatively new to the forum and have not made many postings, I've had my Elan for about a year but for a large percentage of that time it's been laid up. I took it for an MOT yesterday and it failed on a few things, brakes, washers and emissions. I can easily fix the brakes and the washers, in fact there is nothing wrong with the washers but the tester forgot what I told him when he took the car in. The thing I'm a bit stuck on is the emissions. It has been running on 3 cylinders sometimes when I've started it and also did on the test so I've ordered some new plugs and I think I'll do the leads as well as they look very old. The mechanic said to change the O2 sensor, but I can see one easily.

The car is a 1992 SE Turbo registered in August and is fitted with a Magnex stainless exhaust, would it have an O2 sensor and if it does where is it located.I had also thought about changing the standard air filter for a K&N to introduce a bit more air, what do people think?

Thanks in advance,
Russell
Lotus Elan M100, Quantum Saloon, Honda CRZ, Hymer Eriba Jet
Quantum2001
Newbie
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed 22.08.2018, 12:32
Location: Darlington, County Durham UK

Re: Failed MOT

Postby alan e » Sun 07.07.2019, 16:03

If its a 92 se it wont have a sensor unless its been changed to closed loop, the sensor will be in front and to the left of the turbo with cable coming out from the top of it going into plug by the off side light lift motor.
Black 1992 M100
Austin 7 1932 box saloon
BMW X5
alan e
God
 
Posts: 826
Joined: Sun 19.02.2012, 20:43
Location: worthing west sussex

Re: Failed MOT

Postby Quantum2001 » Sun 07.07.2019, 16:06

Great thanks for the quick reply, I'll go and have a look, the CO readout on the MOT says 'cat equipped vehicle with closed loop control', however I don't know if that is correct or not.
Lotus Elan M100, Quantum Saloon, Honda CRZ, Hymer Eriba Jet
Quantum2001
Newbie
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed 22.08.2018, 12:32
Location: Darlington, County Durham UK

Re: Failed MOT

Postby dapinky » Sun 07.07.2019, 16:11

Russel,

can I confirm that we are talking about a UK (RHD) Elan SE????
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually.....

go on - click this link - you know you want to!
User avatar
dapinky
LEC Administrator
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun 15.10.2006, 12:54
Location: As far west as you can get in West Wales before you become Irish (Pembroke Dock).

Re: Failed MOT

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sun 07.07.2019, 16:18

Russell,

We are assuming you are in the EU, or more specifically in the UK.

I'm on the other side of the Atlantic, but I believe a 1992 M100 is still an SE and not an S2. It is "possible" for your car to have an O2 sensor, but it didn't come with the car when it was first delivered. If it has been upgraded, it still wouldn't have a CAT, so the inspector may be using the wrong specifications completely.

The S2 came out in 1995 (?) and it was the only European version with a CAT and an O2 sensor. The US/FED version was 1991 only and it too has a CAT and O2.

Do you know if it has any of the "Mountain" performance chips installed? (1499) is the most common variant. If you do, then it is possible someone has upgraded to the S2 specification to take advantage of an O2 sensor.

If you update your profile with your location, there is probably someone nearby that can look at the car and tell you immediately if you have an O2 sensor.

This pictures shows where the O2 should be if you have one:
Exh Manifold.JPG


The RED circle is the O2 sensor and the BLUE circle is where it would be if you have one (at the near side of the manifold right in the front of the engine). It will have 4 wires and if you don't have one, there will be a large hex shaped plug where it would go.

The fact you have a misfire, I am amazed the inspector even tested it because it would have had a really bad result. If the plugs are fairly old, then you should certainly change them but be sure to gap them correctly. I strongly suggest you put the correct and original plugs in the car. The engine was designed to use those plugs and not any of the newer "special" metals or ceramic designs. BKR6E Gap: 0.8mm (0.031") is what you want.

Misfiring can also be caused by a dirty/sticking/damaged injector, so do some searching to find suggestions on how to identify which is causing the misfire and how to diagnose the cause.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Brit-Car-Nut
God
 
Posts: 4416
Joined: Tue 03.07.2007, 17:07
Location: Charlotte, NC USA

Re: Failed MOT

Postby alan e » Sun 07.07.2019, 16:29

Quantum2001 wrote:Great thanks for the quick reply, I'll go and have a look, the CO readout on the MOT says 'cat equipped vehicle with closed loop control', however I don't know if that is correct or not.

BCN If its a MOT it must be in the Uk and the tester is using the wrong data its not got a cat this happens a lot here take it back to get it re tested using the right data evan if its been changed to closed loop its still tested has a none cat car ie a 92se.
Black 1992 M100
Austin 7 1932 box saloon
BMW X5
alan e
God
 
Posts: 826
Joined: Sun 19.02.2012, 20:43
Location: worthing west sussex

Re: Failed MOT

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sun 07.07.2019, 16:35

alan e wrote:
Quantum2001 wrote:Great thanks for the quick reply, I'll go and have a look, the CO readout on the MOT says 'cat equipped vehicle with closed loop control', however I don't know if that is correct or not.

BCN If its a MOT it must be in the Uk and the tester is using the wrong data its not got a cat this happens a lot here take it back to get it re tested using the right data evan if its been changed to closed loop its still tested has a none cat car ie a 92se.

I understand, but just wanted to explain the possibilities. I know the '92 and newer cars have the O2 wiring completely available without any special work, so there would be no other indication of someone just adding an O2 and 1499 chip to get better fuel economy.
Brit-Car-Nut
God
 
Posts: 4416
Joined: Tue 03.07.2007, 17:07
Location: Charlotte, NC USA

Re: Failed MOT

Postby Quantum2001 » Sun 07.07.2019, 16:44

Sorry, yes I should have been clearer, I am in the UK. I'm just waiting for the anti-seize to work on the bolts holding on the turbo cover and then I'll be able to tell. I've had issues before with one of my kit cars where they tried to test it to the wrong standard because it didn't come up on the DVLA system.

The washers on the car have been changed to work with a toggle switch instead of the stalk and I told the tester this and he still failed it on this. I tried it when I got home and it worked fine. I'm planning to change it back to work with the stalk and am guessing there is something wrong with the switch, would I be write in thinking the stalks are 1980s Cavalier/Astra? I can't see them listed on the compatibility chart I have.

Regards,
Russell
Lotus Elan M100, Quantum Saloon, Honda CRZ, Hymer Eriba Jet
Quantum2001
Newbie
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed 22.08.2018, 12:32
Location: Darlington, County Durham UK

Re: Failed MOT

Postby alan e » Sun 07.07.2019, 16:45

Brit-Car-Nut wrote:
alan e wrote:
Quantum2001 wrote:Great thanks for the quick reply, I'll go and have a look, the CO readout on the MOT says 'cat equipped vehicle with closed loop control', however I don't know if that is correct or not.

BCN If its a MOT it must be in the Uk and the tester is using the wrong data its not got a cat this happens a lot here take it back to get it re tested using the right data evan if its been changed to closed loop its still tested has a none cat car ie a 92se.

I understand, but just wanted to explain the possibilities. I know the '92 and newer cars have the O2 wiring completely available without any special work, so there would be no other indication of someone just adding an O2 and 1499 chip to get better fuel economy.


BCN we always take notice of your input ( well i do ).
Black 1992 M100
Austin 7 1932 box saloon
BMW X5
alan e
God
 
Posts: 826
Joined: Sun 19.02.2012, 20:43
Location: worthing west sussex

Re: Failed MOT

Postby alan e » Sun 07.07.2019, 16:50

Quantum2001 wrote:Sorry, yes I should have been clearer, I am in the UK. I'm just waiting for the anti-seize to work on the bolts holding on the turbo cover and then I'll be able to tell. I've had issues before with one of my kit cars where they tried to test it to the wrong standard because it didn't come up on the DVLA system.

The washers on the car have been changed to work with a toggle switch instead of the stalk and I told the tester this and he still failed it on this. I tried it when I got home and it worked fine. I'm planning to change it back to work with the stalk and am guessing there is something wrong with the switch, would I be write in thinking the stalks are 1980s Cavalier/Astra? I can't see them listed on the compatibility chart I have.

Regards,
Russell

No need to take the turbo covers off to check it sticks up through the cover if you can see a large bolt head about 25mm wide poking through a hole in the cover you have not got a sensor, you would have to remove this bold to fit the sensor.
Black 1992 M100
Austin 7 1932 box saloon
BMW X5
alan e
God
 
Posts: 826
Joined: Sun 19.02.2012, 20:43
Location: worthing west sussex

Re: Failed MOT

Postby dapinky » Sun 07.07.2019, 17:26

It was a fair assumption that the car was a UK spec SE in the UK, but I could see little point in conjecture until it was confirmed (I know of ROW/LHD etc cars over here)...

Anyway, the car will have no cat, and any O2 sensor shouldn't matter regarding the MOT test. The car should be tested to 1991 standards, with an emmissions limit of 3.5% and 1200ppm.

It can be hard for some cars to pass the test (even at these limits, especially if it is a very early car with the first-generation EPROM), but certainly shouldn't be tested against the far more stringent limits for Cat equipped cars from later time (and even they should be tested to the earlier limits as the car isn't listed in the appropriate Appendix of the VOSA paper).

Anyway, the picture shows the 'plug' which was fitted to UK SE's, and which is replaced with the O2 sensor on later cars/foreign cars/cars which have been retro-fitted with one (along with a suitable EPROM chip).

engine bay lo res.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually.....

go on - click this link - you know you want to!
User avatar
dapinky
LEC Administrator
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun 15.10.2006, 12:54
Location: As far west as you can get in West Wales before you become Irish (Pembroke Dock).

Re: Failed MOT

Postby Quantum2001 » Sun 07.07.2019, 19:49

That's great, I can see the large bolt head so no O2 sensor, something less to worry about. Reading the MOT the first fast idle reading was 3.59% vol and the second was 4.17% vol so the second one was too high.

Regards, Russell
Lotus Elan M100, Quantum Saloon, Honda CRZ, Hymer Eriba Jet
Quantum2001
Newbie
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed 22.08.2018, 12:32
Location: Darlington, County Durham UK

Re: Failed MOT

Postby John_W » Sun 07.07.2019, 20:57

Have you seen this recent similar thread?
User avatar
John_W
Heid-bummer
 
Posts: 3682
Joined: Mon 21.04.2003, 12:31
Location: Aberdeen

Re: Failed MOT

Postby Saltire » Mon 08.07.2019, 07:38

I would also think carefully about where you take the Elan for its MoT. In my experience many run-of-the-mill MoT stations aren’t willing or competent to test classic cars. I’ve been told on several occasions “not to bring it back because we can’t cope”.

On emissions, when I had my Alfa Spider, one tester failed it. I took it with no adjustments to my local “shed”, run by a pensioner with oily fingers, and he passed it. I asked him to explain, and he said “Look, it’s a 1972 car. I start it up, and if I can see the garage wall through the cloud of exhaust smoke, it’s fine” :lol:

My last MoT emissions result on my S2 is here.
Jonathan

1995 Elan S2 no 512, BRG/magnolia, last of 4 UK S2 to this spec
2010 Fiat Panda 100HP, bossanova white/grey (the rollerskate)
2017 BMW F48 X1 2.0D AWD, Mediterranean blue/magnolia (the workhorse)
User avatar
Saltire
God
 
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sun 05.04.2015, 22:27
Location: Left foot in Wiltshire, right foot in Gloucestershire, heart in Scotland

Re: Failed MOT

Postby muley » Mon 08.07.2019, 09:22

Saltire wrote:I would also think carefully about where you take the Elan for its MoT. In my experience many run-of-the-mill MoT stations aren’t willing or competent to test classic cars. I’ve been told on several occasions “not to bring it back because we can’t cope”.

On emissions, when I had my Alfa Spider, one tester failed it. I took it with no adjustments to my local “shed”, run by a pensioner with oily fingers, and he passed it. I asked him to explain, and he said “Look, it’s a 1972 car. I start it up, and if I can see the garage wall through the cloud of exhaust smoke, it’s fine” :lol:

My last MoT emissions result on my S2 is here.


Good post. My local MOT man is a legend. E.g. small exhaust leak gummed up on the spot . He spots a fail and says he knows I'll fix it a s.a.p. The best one recently ~ can't test the brakes on a roller due to LSD fitted ~ just stands on brake pedal as it comes of the stand = pass.
"You can take the man out of the Elan, but you can't take the Elan out of the man"
1995 Palacio S2 no 507
"LEC turbo nutter" ;)Black MX-5 NC Red Honda Integra S
User avatar
muley
Moderator
 
Posts: 4129
Joined: Tue 22.04.2003, 09:07
Location: Wokingham, Berks and Waikanae Beach

Re: Failed MOT

Postby Saltire » Mon 08.07.2019, 12:38

muley wrote:
Saltire wrote:I would also think carefully about where you take the Elan for its MoT. In my experience many run-of-the-mill MoT stations aren’t willing or competent to test classic cars. I’ve been told on several occasions “not to bring it back because we can’t cope”.

On emissions, when I had my Alfa Spider, one tester failed it. I took it with no adjustments to my local “shed”, run by a pensioner with oily fingers, and he passed it. I asked him to explain, and he said “Look, it’s a 1972 car. I start it up, and if I can see the garage wall through the cloud of exhaust smoke, it’s fine” :lol:

My last MoT emissions result on my S2 is here.


Good post. My local MOT man is a legend. E.g. small exhaust leak gummed up on the spot . He spots a fail and says he knows I'll fix it a s.a.p. The best one recently ~ can't test the brakes on a roller due to LSD fitted ~ just stands on brake pedal as it comes of the stand = pass.


Thanks Jim. In fact the “see the garage wall” quote came from Cresswells at California Crossroads - just down the road from you :lol:
Jonathan

1995 Elan S2 no 512, BRG/magnolia, last of 4 UK S2 to this spec
2010 Fiat Panda 100HP, bossanova white/grey (the rollerskate)
2017 BMW F48 X1 2.0D AWD, Mediterranean blue/magnolia (the workhorse)
User avatar
Saltire
God
 
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sun 05.04.2015, 22:27
Location: Left foot in Wiltshire, right foot in Gloucestershire, heart in Scotland

Re: Failed MOT

Postby Bern » Mon 08.07.2019, 17:52

If you update your profile with your location, I'm sure somebody can recommend a good MOT tester in your area :-)
'90 Elan SE Turbo
'08 Mini Clubman Cooper
'03 VW Transporter
'03 VW Lupo
'72 Land Rover 88
'80ish Kubota B5100E
User avatar
Bern
Fanatic
 
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat 21.05.2016, 19:16
Location: Wells, Somerset, UK

Re: Failed MOT

Postby muley » Mon 08.07.2019, 21:06

We're drifting off topic here, Jonathan. I'd rather not embarrass my tester, suffice it to say he is nearer Wokingham than Cresswells..

Jim
"You can take the man out of the Elan, but you can't take the Elan out of the man"
1995 Palacio S2 no 507
"LEC turbo nutter" ;)Black MX-5 NC Red Honda Integra S
User avatar
muley
Moderator
 
Posts: 4129
Joined: Tue 22.04.2003, 09:07
Location: Wokingham, Berks and Waikanae Beach


Return to Engine

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest