2 cylinder Elan

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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby GeoffSmith » Fri 14.06.2019, 22:12

:smt023
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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby gmg31 » Sun 30.06.2019, 15:40

So came on here to post my issue but it sounds pretty much the same as the story above. Except mine has since cleared up so it will be harder to diagnose.

Went out in my 92 SE yesterday and experienced some issues that I’m hoping you can help me with please. After a good drive out I parked up for 20 mins and returned and when I started her up she sounded horrible. Low power very loud and rattly bangs and pops from the exhaust. I managed to very gently drive her home. If I tried to accelerate there was very loud back fires from the exhaust. And the car was physically shaking. When I got home I parked her up for a while and when I went to put her in the garage she started up and ran perfectly.
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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby John_W » Sun 30.06.2019, 17:03

Not sure exactly what caused your symptoms, but it certainly sounds like not all, and possibly only two, cylinders were firing. What you describe sounds like the manner in which my car ran. If/when it happens again, you need to remove some spark plug leads to discover which cylinders aren’t firing then use the info to deduce whether it’s a fuel or ignition problem (1&3 or 2&4 not working => injectors; 1&4 or 2&3 not working => ignition coil).

After the initial failure (which only lasted about 5 miles and about an hour) mine cleared up for about 400 miles during which the car ran perfectly. Then it failed permanently. I’m now home (with the car) having covered about 1500 miles on 3 cylinders. It’s not something I would advocate doing, but it was preferable to leaving the car in France to be recovered.

I’ll replace the injectors later this week and report the results here.

Good luck with your car.

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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby HJ2 » Sun 30.06.2019, 22:45

It could also be that one injector hangs. The cylinder gets flooded with petrol and wont play along for a couple of minutes.
Ultrasonic cleaning might help, as do new injectirs...
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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby Rambo » Mon 01.07.2019, 09:18

Why are so many of us having injector problems these days ? Is it down to the cheaper supermarket fuels ? :?

In ~16 years of ownershjp and 3 Elan's I have never had problems, touch wood. But then again I try and only treat my Isuzu engines to premium quality fuels where possible5, despite the higher price difference. I also treat the tank to prroprietary injector cleaners just before the MOT and then again ~6 months later
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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby HJ2 » Mon 01.07.2019, 09:39

I do the same as you Rambo
The question is what the owner(s) before you did.
The M100 is one of the most expensive Lotus cars to maintain. A lot of owners take shortcuts, which is their good right off course.
When you buy a car that has been fueled with the cheapest petrol and no additives ever, you are bound to find problems with the injectors after al these years :(
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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby Simon_P » Mon 01.07.2019, 17:07

HJ2 wrote:When you buy a car that has been fueled with the cheapest petrol and no additives ever, you are bound to find problems with the injectors after al these years
And a fuel filter that can be difficult to change.
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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby Rambo » Mon 01.07.2019, 20:43

Simon_P wrote:
HJ2 wrote:When you buy a car that has been fueled with the cheapest petrol and no additives ever, you are bound to find problems with the injectors after al these years
And a fuel filter that can be difficult to change.


Even worse when you have the Simon Kuching roll cage fitted :shock:
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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby HJ2 » Mon 01.07.2019, 21:38

I’ll take it off your hands any day !
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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby Rambo » Tue 02.07.2019, 06:54

You can have it for free HJ :smt023










As long as you pay me £8000 for the stuff it's fixed to :twisted:
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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby NewLogik » Thu 04.07.2019, 17:22

Rambo wrote:You can have it for free HJ :smt023










As long as you pay me £8000 for the stuff it's fixed to :twisted:


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby HJ2 » Thu 04.07.2019, 18:34

Rambo wrote:You can have it for free HJ

As long as you pay me £8000 for the stuff it's fixed to :twisted:



Your hoops are attached to your house? :lol:
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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby John_W » Mon 08.07.2019, 17:52

I’m pleased to report that I now own a 4-cylinder Elan again!
:burnout:

The diagnosis of no 1 injector having failed was correct. I fitted a new set of injectors and it feels like it’s going better than ever (or maybe that’s just my imagination after driving 2000 miles on 3 cylinders). I’m relieved that my decision to drive it home rather than leave it for a recovery firm has not caused any damage to the engine. As a special treat I changed the oil & filter and treated it to a wash and hoovering. It was due anyway as we covered 3,300 miles on our Europe trip and I change the oil & filter every 3,000 miles.

I replaced my original injectors with a Delphi set I bought off the eBay seller “fuel-injectors” in the USA a couple of years ago (their part no is U171053-4N). The originals had covered just over 100,000 miles (well, one of them had only done 98,000 miles when it failed). The eBay ones fit and work well, and I’m glad I bought them - they still have some for sale on eBay.

I followed the Service Notes and Dave Meyer’s WikiLEC write-up which was very helpful. I used the eBay injectors that BCN verified a few years ago as being suitable for our cars. Having performed the job, I’ve got a few comments to add to Dave’s write-up:

Tools needed:
  • 10mm and 12 mm sockets (not 12 & 14 as stated in the Wiki)
  • A 10mm spanner is also useful (for earth wire bolt removal)
  • Needle-nose pliers need to be as thin and as long as you can get.
  • T-30 Torx bit (not T-26 as stated in the Wiki)
Procedure:
  • The plastic wire cover is held by 10mm bolts (not 12mm)
  • The fuel rail is held by 12mm bolts (not 14mm)
  • To avoid losing the clips holding the electrical connectors in place, stuff rags into all the gaps underneath them and have a magnetic probe to hand before removal.
  • Remove the 10mm bolt holding the injector harness earth wires to the front of the engine; this will allow the injector connectors, injector harness and its plastic cover to be moved out of the way.
  • Be very careful when moving all plastic parts, wires and wire-wrap which will have been baked for over 25 years next to a hot engine and will be very brittle and easily broken. (I managed to break 3 small parts despite my care.)
  • Clean everything as well as possible before attempting to remove the fuel rail or injectors. Not only was there an impressive entomological collection hiding in there, but also grit and oily gunk. I used penetrating oil, WD40, paint-brushes, a toothbrush (old), screwdrivers, cotton buds, rags and compressed air. All that’s stopping high-pressure fuel spraying all over your hot engine are the “O”-ring at the top of the injector where it pushes into the fuel rail and the “O”-ring at the bottom of the injector where it pushes into the inlet manifold. You don’t want to get any grot in the way of those seals when you’re fiddling in an awkward small space trying to fit them.
  • Getting the old injectors out is very fiddly. Getting the new ones in is worse.
  • The new injectors I fitted are slightly shorter than the original ones (by approx 2mm) but the “O”-rings at both ends seal well.

I’m glad I didn’t try to do this job in France, even if a replacement injector could have been found. It took time and patience and I did it over a 2-day period which let me clean the awkward area and allowed time for Araldite to repair broken plastic parts.

Finally I want to re-state my thanks to everybody who offered me help when I had this problem 1,300 miles into our 3,300 mile trip. My wife was amazed that random people she didn’t know (as well as some she has met) of several nationalities were so helpful, offering to get a replacement injector to me, supply replacements for broken brittle plastic parts, suggesting Lotus-knowledgeable garages, and even one person offering to remove an injector from his own Elan to allow us to continue our trip. I was very appreciative, but not amazed as I know what a great bunch of people inhabit LEC. Thanks again!
:cheers:

Now we’ll just have to do the European trip again with 4 cylinders firing!
:burnout:
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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby M100TURBOFR » Mon 08.07.2019, 19:44

John
Glad to hear you made it back to the Granite City and that the Elan is up and running again.
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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby HJ2 » Mon 08.07.2019, 20:25

great John!
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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby chrisP » Thu 18.07.2019, 16:24

In addition to what John_w added to the injector rail removal...
If you only want to get to the injectors then the wiring harness does not need to be removed and neither does the regulator, there is sufficient movement available with them in place
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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby GeoffSmith » Thu 29.08.2019, 17:11

Just for you John… no hammers involved. :-D



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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby John_W » Thu 29.08.2019, 21:21

That’s a good trick!

I might investigate the “service kit”. The ebay pic doesn’t look quite right, but it might be generic.

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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Thu 29.08.2019, 21:24

Remember, they are PEAK and HOLD injectors which means a higher current opens them up quickly but it is immediately reduced to low current so the coils don't overheat.

Even a 9v battery can damage the coils.

I still vote for having a real professional injector cleaning company do the cleaning and verifying they are working correctly.
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Re: 2 cylinder Elan

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Thu 29.08.2019, 21:26

John_W wrote:That’s a good trick!

I might investigate the “service kit”. The ebay pic doesn’t look quite right, but it might be generic.

John

It is generic. We don't use the filters and the o-rings are available elsewhere for less.
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