On startup

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On startup

Postby malbon » Thu 18.05.2006, 21:57

....the engine sounds a little rough from what sounds like from nder the cam cover - a little bit mechanical clankety/tappety - but only on startup from cold.

Once warm she purrs like a lil pussy cat and sounds as smooth as a looked after engine should sound.

Im on 70k, due a cambelt and my last owner hardly used in the past 3 years - like 1000 miles - which i have now covered in 3 weeks - and some :-D

What could this be then or is it normal ?

Thanks

Jon
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Postby Paul.P » Thu 18.05.2006, 22:16

Jon, sounds like the tappets, & is quite normal. They are oil filled, & sometimes take a few seconds to fill up .
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Postby malbon » Thu 18.05.2006, 22:39

Good answer Paul !!!

i thought it might be that :wink:
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Noise on Start up

Postby johnbenk » Sat 20.05.2006, 18:20

Hi

Get some "millers oil additive. This tends to stop noisy tappits on start up.

It is an excellent product available from "demon tweeks" nr Chester or Motorworld stock it. It is similar to molyslip but does tend lubricate the upper oil galleries. see diagram.

To "test" it add some BEFORE START UP when engine cold. Gets rid of noise tappits, you need to add about Ilt though. Wait until you need to top up

Works well as it is suppose to lubricate engine tappits etc (see blurb on leaflet and the demo that is next to the product in car spares shops.
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Postby malbon » Mon 22.05.2006, 17:14

Thanks John.

Is this not what they refer to as 'Snake Oil' though ? - Oil additives ?

I know Millers is a reputable brand - i always use thier oil but thought id ask anyway ?
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Postby Simon_P » Thu 01.06.2006, 15:37

I also had a noisy hydraulic tappet.

I put in 0W 40 fully synthetic oil in; as I thought that it was the best that money could buy. The 0W is a lower cold viscosity than it says in the manual.

The Hydraulic bit refers to the adjustment of the tappet clearance - oil is used to "Pump-up" the tappet so that the tolerances between the cam and Valve are maintained at the correct level so normally there is no tapping noise. On old engines this is screwdriver and spanner job.

Wear opens up the tolerance on the seals in the tappet. When the engine is stopped the oil seeps out of the tappet seal and the adjustment is lost.

The first sign of this is when the car has been standing for a few days. At start-up there will be a clattering of tappets for 2 or 3 seconds while the oil pressure fills them up.

The second stage of wear is when the tappet seals have worn a bit more. While the engine is cold the tolerance in the seal is so great that it cannot hold the oil. As the engine warms up the tolerance is reduced and the seal works.

Going back to my first point - The 0W oil is low viscosity when cold and gets past the seals easier making the problem worse. I reverted back to the 5W or 10W (can't remember) at the next service and haven't had any tappet noise since.

So my advice is to use oil with the correct cold viscosity, and the problem will probably go away.

Be very wary of oil additives – some are not suitable for engines with hydraulic tappets. Those that will stop this problem are probably viscosity enhancers and you may as well put thicker oil in to start with.

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Postby Noob_saibot » Fri 02.06.2006, 12:32

Hi Jon,
If the noise occurs mainly on startup just for a second or so, especially after not being run for a day or more I thinks that's ok. If the noise continues for a few minutes though, maybe intermittently ('lazy' tappets), then maybe you could consider inspecting them. My s2 is quiet at the moment but my 'other vauxhall' ;-) has a c20xe engine similar in head design to the elan, especially the bucket tappets. If you are changing the timing belt anyway it is an ideal time to get to the tappets. There is a rough guide here (http://www.nuvision.ndo.co.uk/tappets.htm) although I did not follow this procedure exactly - I followed the one in the elan service manual (lotus service notes section Ec, page 26) which suggests filling the inner piston with 'light oil'. The hot oil for the outer bucket is also unecessary. Hope this is of some help.
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Re: On startup

Postby BertBeck » Sun 03.01.2021, 04:06

I've noticed this tappety noise, it lasts for a few minutes on cold start up but tails off once warmed up and sounds sweet as after. I'm using 10/60 fully synthetic now. A little bit worried as I lost all my oil due to a burst oil cooler pipe recently but it did used to make the noise before that when I had mobil 5/30w in. Should I get it checked out?
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Re: On startup

Postby HJ2 » Sun 03.01.2021, 12:18

As I see it: additives are not going to help you, sorry!
Try changing the oil grade and do a flush with an engine cleaner first.

If the effect is zero then as a last resort you could try clean the lifters and give the components a mild polish as i did here:
viewtopic.php?f=79&t=28322

Thats a whole lot of work though.
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Re: On startup

Postby Simon_P » Sun 03.01.2021, 14:02

Blimey - back to the future!

The Engine is pretty bullet proof even when the oil hose comes off - If you caught it early enough?

The top end should be fine and the tappets are filled with oil. Cleaning them usually makes them quiet.
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