setting timing and idle

[mickmick]

i have had the shoe for almost 2 years now but so far i have never set the timing up (possibly cos i'm scared )

i also have a slightly high idle, around 1100 rpm even when nice and hot, and occasionally the idle will hang at around 2000rpm after driving when the clutch is fully pressed down (stopping, parking etc) but even after finding and fixing a small leak on the plenum pipe it still happens.

so, to that end i have bought myself a timing gun (ty ebay) and soon as it arrives i am going to set up my engine timing (or hopefully just check to make sure it is still at 16 BTDC)

Now i have read the write up on how to do this and me and my missus (who makes a damn fine looking spanner monkey) wil be able to sort it out easily enough, so what i want to know is this............what order should i do the tasks in??

i know i have to:

set timing
set idle
have car running in service mode (def required for setting timing up)

but, do what order should it be done (and do i still need to be in service mode to set the idle speed up)

and after i have done those things is there anything else i need to do, CO2 etc etc????


any help appreciated

Mick


Ps, i should maybe have started one of those sexy little "project" threads going, so far i have had to : fix engine oil leak, change the fuel tank, sort out the birdsnest of wiring for the stereo, change my rear wishbones, upgraded my front brakes a little(ATE for now), replaced my glovebox, almost sorted the window speaker triangle thingy, and added the front rubber lip. Good job i enjoy tinkering with motors init

Mick

[Doug]

have ya seen the Setting Engine Timing article yet?


also you usually should not need to set the idle speed. it can be set but I would only do so after you set the timing correctly and verify all your other sensors are reading in the proper range. The coolant temp sensor can foul and give you a high idle so be sure to check the readings of it on ElanScan . . .

[mickmick]

you mean there's an section for setting the engine timing???

wow, i'll have to try find that then

have checked my elascan coolant temp readings, they seem ok to me, between 60 to 80 over a 15 mile journy

however..................

appart from the nice chat with doug, i still dont know if i have to have the engne running in service mode before setting the idle

anyone else any ideas????

Mick

[GeoffSmith]

Mick,

Follow Doug's link (click on the bold green text in his post). There is a link there to setting it into service mode by shorting pins A & B on the ALDL with a paper clip but here's a LINK to it anyway. Make sure it's pins A&B and NOT F&G as you could knacker the ECU's ElanScan link.

The pin letters are difficult to see on the ALDL plugs but if you look at the ElanScan interface, pin A is the one with a single grey wire coming out and pin B is adjacent with no wire. Pin F has a black wire and pin G has a white wire. The colours relate to Mick's ElanScan interface wires only!

Hope that makes sense.

Geoff

[mickmick]

Now i have read the write up on how to do this and me and my missus (who makes a damn fine looking spanner monkey) wil be able to sort it out easily enough, so what i want to know is this............what order should i do the tasks in??

so, as i said in the origional post, i know what to do to set the timing, but do i need to have it in service mode to set the idle???????????



in amused exasperation

Mick

[GeoffSmith]

Mick,

Bollocks! I've found my glasses.

I would have thought you need to check/adjust the idle with everything active, so NOT in service mode.

Thinking out loud for the minute, before you go tweaking anything, you can display both the "target idle" and the "engine speed" on the ElanScan graph and you should be able to see if the engine speed comes down to the target speed when you let the throttle off.

Geoff

[Doug]

before I'd change the idle speed setting I would be sure timing is set, spark plugs are in good condition, and all sensors are reading in the expected zones. Putting car in "field service mode" will lock out the sensor inputs and you get just a raw engine, so I believe this is how you would set the idle speed, but you should have a check in the manual to be sure--I never had to set mine and it is not usual that it should need resetting.

[GeoffSmith]

I never had to set mine and it is not usual that it should need resetting.

That's what I would have expected. If everything is set up correctly then the ECU adjusts the tickover correctly, which is why I was suggesting comparing the target speed with the actual. If there is a difference, then there is something else to be done, otherwise all is OK. Don't forget that any air leaks will also screw up the idle speed Mick, so listen for hisses.

Geoff

[mickmick]

ok, the idle thing....

i have 4 ES runs logged in my computer

1st run , about 200 seconds (just messing with it) target idle was steady at 950, engine speed was between 1070 and 1170 when not moving

2nd run, about 15 minutes, target idle started at 950, then after a minute or so started to jump around between 1025 and 1175, with the engine speed being generally around 100 above the target speed

3rd and 4th runs, same again, target idle jumping around between 1025 and 1250 or so (with ocasional drop to 950) with the engine speed being around 100-200 above the target value

all sensors seem ok to me, but, i'm no ES expert, in all honestly i'm not even good enough to call myself a bodger, so i dont know if the readings i am getting are good or bad (hence the other thread in the ES section)

I'll keep my eyes on this and the other thread till my timing gun turns up next week then give it a go at the tasks

Mick

[mickmick]

oooh, i forgot one little thing.......


if the ECU sets the idle up how come there is an idle adjustment screw on the throttle body?

very interesting Mr Bondddddd

[GeoffSmith]

Mick,

Don't know about the idle adjust screw - I know there is an idle adjust control (IAC) which is used by the ECU to adjust the idle speed. You can display the IAC position on ES as well.

I see what you mean about the target idle wandering about but it does track the coolant temperature so at least it isn't a random variation and seems to be about right (950RPM at >80°C and up to ~1250RPM at ~25°C). What is strange is that the coolant temperature is dropping even though you're hacking along at 90 MPH (no doubt on a private road); I don't suppose your thermostat is stuck open?

Geoff

[mickmick]

well geoff, in all honesty when i drive the shoe (the missus called it that, now its stuck) i do drive it hard when i can, and i have noticed that the temp does drop when i push it for a short while(say sat in traffic it rises to 1/2 mark, you get some space and run it thru clean air it drops back down to 1/8 mark), i assume that this is because its an air cooled engine and if you are giving it some over a short period then the extra air passing over the radiator will cool it down somewhat

on another note hoewever, when i'm ahem, testing the revs, over a length of time, say a 100mph+ run for over 5 minutes the temp will rise up to the 1/4 and stay there untill the "testing" period is over and you back off to cruising mode (off the turbo, revs nice and steady at 3-4k or so)

now from what i know (which isnt much) that seems to be the normal operation of the elan engine wrt to temp/revs/speed relationships

Mick

i have deleted the PS as it was rubish, confusing IAC elan type with IAC army helicopter types, sorry

[Enright]

Mickmick,

I you want to pop down here one Saturday or Sunday then I've done this a few times, so can show you how to run through the procedure. I also have a CO2 meter and we could then do back-to-back comparisons if you like.

If you follow the aforementioned link, you may not even have to mess around with the idle speed. I certainly wouldn't do until you are absolutely SURE that the timing is right.

[Doug]

sounds like you guys have a date then!

will there be comparason of one's gun sizes too I wonder?

[GeoffSmith]

i have deleted the PS as it was rubish, confusing IAC Elan type with IAC army helicopter types, sorry

We were both wrong anyway but both nearly right - it's the inlet air control.

Neil, how do you adjust the idle speed? I've had a quick scan of the manual but can't find anything - is there any adjustment on the IAC?

[Enright]

Geoff, looking back I may not have been too clear there about which procedure I was talking about!

I meant the timing. Or setting the mixture at idle. But I'd steer clear of buggering about with idle speed until both of those are right, and even then I'd have to read the instructions, preferably after doing an Elanscan run.

[Doug]

it involves a small screw on the throttle body but that's all I'll say for now

[GeoffSmith]

it involves a small screw on the throttle body

Let's keep our minds on the job in hand

So what does the screw do?

Thinks out loud: I though the ECU learned the IAC position and had everthing under control, or is it to bring things together if the ECU cannot maintain. If that's the case then don't fix it unless it's broke - i.e. ES highlights that the ECU can't maintain idle at the set level.

Geoff

[GeoffSmith]

I've looked at a few other ES runs (yes I've got a collection - I'm a sad git) and the coolant temperature rises to ~85°C then stays within ±5°C whereas Mick's is going anywhere from 90°C to 60°C! I think that the other thing that will happen is that the maximum boost is reduced at lower temperatures, so this would tie in with your observation of the boost gauge being low. Is your heater inefficient?

I'm convinced your thermostat is stuck open.

Geoff

[mickmick]

funny you should mention the heater being poor Geoff but yes, it is quite shabby, it doesnt ever get HOT, warm yes, but never HOT. so i'll have a look at replacing it.

one thing i will say is that all the runs i have done so far have been thru some country roads, i havent yet done a run down a motorway or good A road where i can keep a constant speed over a decent period, that'll be my next step

Thanks for all the input so far, and Niel, i'll be in touch about popping down one weekend soon

Mick