very rought start and fail to iddle after head gasket change

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Re: very rought start and fail to iddle after head gasket ch

Postby Tuga2112 » Fri 18.05.2018, 20:16

plenty of stuff to catch up with now, so i will address each reply in the most consise way i can.

Simon,
there has been some findings which i may have posted on facebook and forgot to update in this thread. (or vice versa)

Simon_P wrote:I think that if you take the cams off you can do the compression test.
Then take it to bits and work out how big the job is.

Do i have access to the valves if i remove the cam cover ? i was under the impression i had to remove the head to take the valves off. so am not sure what is the advantage of that ?
if you mean something different than "i can be 'ahead' in the process that much when the tensionser arrives' , i am not understading the advice fully.
Simon_P wrote:Unless you used sealent gunk on them most of the gaskets will be OK. Except for the HG which would be foolish to reuse.

i did use sealant gunk :roll: some bluey stuff. :( :( :( im sure the guys at rockauto will be pleased to see another order from same address soon.
Simon_P wrote:Unless you suspect damage the belt and pulleys may be OK.

i have no reason to expect iddler or water pump or the belt itself to be damaged, and intend to re-use them although i know for sure the tensioner pulley spring is broken, which needs replacing.
thankfully Jim butler on facebook (dont know forum name) offered to send me one while im waiting for the rockauto order. so i should be able to proceed somehow on monday
Simon_P wrote:Second hand valves would probably be OK as they don't wear much, you'll need to lap them in though.

good to know they can be re-used, i did suspect they could, but assumed no one would have bothered to take them out to sell as second hand, will have to google out what you mean by "lap them" as the term is new to me.
Simon_P wrote:I'm pretty sure I have most if not all of the parts you will need, except I don't have new valves and I'm not sure if I could put my hand on the spring.

[/quote]
i am not entirely sure what you mean when referencing "spring" however, i will be in touch about parts as soon as i have an idea of what am i looking at

Simon_P wrote:I cant play your video so please confirm
if the belt had slipped
If you realligned it before taking the video
If you reset the timing

If the belt slipped and you didnt reallign it im not sure what you are expecting -valve and ignition timing are quite important for an engine to run

Belt did slip
Belt was not realigned before video
timing reset I am not sure what you mean by that. please clarify?

When the video was taken, the broken tensioner pulley was in place, and some (unknown) amount of tooth slipped in the belt.

as things stand right now. the tensionser pulley is out, and the cams are in the timing position, the bottom shaft is in TDC (top dead centre) The car is ready to take in a new tensionser, and my plan is (unless i am strongly adviced aganist it) to put a new tensioner, make sure the belt is tensioned properly, and run a compression test in every cilinder with the inertia switch tripped, the intention is to find out if there is any permanent damage (we are all expecting that, but let me have some faith in lady luck) and in the likely case there is permanent damage. to at least know if there are any cilinders which have not been affected.
the idea is that its quicker for me to run that test and order sets of valves at that point Than to remove the head again and then order the valves.


Dave

Im gonna be honest, i can barely folow the tips, i think theres a lot in there that will likely make sense when i see it, so i will not leave any comments/questions for now untill i have had a couple of read-through and possibly even taken the head apart.
most likely, you will get another call for help :-D (in a scale of 1 to 10, does Angie hate me at 11 already ?) before i do anything major.

dapinky wrote:As Simon says, you can remove the cams and spin the engine (with plugs out!) without any risk of valves hitting pistons and thus do the compression test.....

that makes sence in a way, but since i have set the system back to TDC and timingh marks on the cams, is there anything to "gain" from remonving the cams at this point ?
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Re: very rought start and fail to iddle after head gasket ch

Postby CalElan » Tue 22.05.2018, 00:22

if you take the cams out all the valves - if they aren't bent - should close fully.
I think what I would do is refit the belt and tensioner - then with spark plugs removed - rotate the engine slowly using the nut on the crankshaft. While rotating try and be sensitive to any resistance or noise coming from the cylinders. If you feel unusual resistance or hear anything rattling around STOP. Remove the head and investigate.
- remember to turn the engine through at least one full cycle - that inlet and exhaust valves open - 2 full turns of the crank.

If it turned over and seemed ok - I'd cross my fingers, pray to my favorite deity and do a compression test.

Good luck
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Re: very rought start and fail to iddle after head gasket ch

Postby Tuga2112 » Wed 23.05.2018, 20:59

CalElan wrote:if you take the cams out all the valves - if they aren't bent - should close fully.
I think what I would do is refit the belt and tensioner - then with spark plugs removed - rotate the engine slowly using the nut on the crankshaft. While rotating try and be sensitive to any resistance or noise coming from the cylinders. If you feel unusual resistance or hear anything rattling around STOP. Remove the head and investigate.
- remember to turn the engine through at least one full cycle - that inlet and exhaust valves open - 2 full turns of the crank.

If it turned over and seemed ok - I'd cross my fingers, pray to my favorite deity and do a compression test.

Good luck


thats pretty much my plan as things stand.
currently waiting for a tensioner spring from bell and colvil, as i suspect the pulley i ordered from rockauto will not include the spring.
ill be updating the thread when parts arrive and will see how it goes..
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Re: very rought start and fail to iddle after head gasket ch

Postby Tuga2112 » Wed 23.05.2018, 21:03

Tuga2112 wrote:thats pretty much my plan as things stand.
currently waiting for a tensioner spring from bell and colvil, as i suspect the pulley i ordered from rockauto will not include the spring.
ill be updating the thread when parts arrive and will see how it goes..


sad news.. just got email from deRoure (aparently this is the backbone of bell and colvil?)

Your order is now in processing however unfortunately the part ordered is currently on back order with the factory.

(This means we have no stock and the vehicle manufacturer also has no stock).

A100E6216S TENSION SPRING: is not in stock at Lotus Cars. It looks as though they will not supply these in the future. You could try to contact SJSports Cars as they might have availability.


With this in mid, I will cancel the current request for the part


Steve doesnt have this in the website, a phone call may or not help. but if anyone can think of alternative sources please let me know.
i tried to find the spring in rockauto site without any luck, although i am not very familiar with that interface.
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Re: very rought start and fail to iddle after head gasket ch

Postby muley » Wed 23.05.2018, 22:11

Have you tried Kelvedon a.k.a. Kelsport?


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Re: very rought start and fail to iddle after head gasket ch

Postby Saltire » Wed 23.05.2018, 22:13

Joao

Is this what you need?
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Re: very rought start and fail to iddle after head gasket ch

Postby Tuga2112 » Wed 23.05.2018, 23:31

muley wrote:Have you tried Kelvedon a.k.a. Kelsport?
Rgds
Jim

Saltire wrote:Joao

Is this what you need?


Yes, i did buy 2 of them about 15 minutes after posting that last message. somehow the search for the part number this time came up with kelvedon where i do not recall seeing them in the search results last week.

eiter way, i will soon find out if they have them and how long i need to wait for the replacement.

in the meanwhile my celica got a clutch relaced, i coudnt let the good weather to waste... the problem is... the elan is in the way so i cant take the other car for MOT anyway. :bonk:

i shall update the topic when theres news.
Thanks for the help so far guys
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Re: very rought start and fail to iddle after head gasket ch

Postby Tuga2112 » Sun 27.05.2018, 10:14

Good news.

Springs Arrived. and i decided to try my luck at the least amount of work.
so, fitted the springs and tensionsed the belt again, put the engine mount and did a compression test.

all cilinders are reading values very close to the 10bar.
after a quick consulation with Pinky over the phone he confirmed that was the number to expect from a good engine.. so i then started it up... and it fired up fine.

seems like i was very lucky and had zero damage in the head. it was just the timing that was far off.

The car is now back on the ground, and my plan is to take it to work this week everyday except weds (long trip to durham after work).
so, only thing missing at the moment is to correct the base timing. is there anyone close to the birmingham area here that has a timing strobe that i can borrow ?
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Re: very rought start and fail to iddle after head gasket ch

Postby HJ2 » Sun 27.05.2018, 13:21

:clap:
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Re: very rought start and fail to iddle after head gasket ch

Postby GeoffSmith » Sun 27.05.2018, 14:09

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Re: very rought start and fail to iddle after head gasket ch

Postby Tuga2112 » Thu 07.06.2018, 17:33

Resurecting the thread again as im still with what feels like an iddle problem.

after a couple of hikups, i now have the car with the CAS set correctly for 16 degree timing (or something pretty close to)
after adjusting the timing the car seemed to be iddling better than before but still higher than when i first bought it.

under the assumption that the ECU needed to "re-learn" its magic, i took the car to work today under the expectation the iddle would either stay as is, or improve.
on the return trip i realised the iddle is back on the 2k mark everytime i go neutral, Beforethe engine warmed up, it would (given enough time) slower to 1500s figure. BUT when i arrived home the engine was hot (possibly hotter than it should, although the needle seems at the right place to turn on the fans) and the iddle wouldnt go lower than 2k even after 2 minutes.

epipete had a similar symptombefore and hes issue was the primary throtle bleed valve.
from reading another post by hj2 hes description of symptoms seems extremely similar to mine

hes solution was
Well, I fixed mine:
I wanted to replace some vacuum tubing to see if that would cure the high idle when cold. When i removed the wheel arch liner to expose the vacuum reservoir, the ' big' hose practically fell off!


im very confused about "vacuum reserviour" terminology.... i mean. i can picture what one of those would be scientifically speaking but i cant see the purpose of "storing" a low pressure volume in a car... and cant think of any box in the engine compartment that would be used for that purpose ?
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Re: very rought start and fail to iddle after head gasket ch

Postby dapinky » Thu 07.06.2018, 18:37

Joao,

The vacuum pressure vessel is a black spherical object, about 10cm in diameter, with a selection of hoses attached (in and out).

To get to it, you need to remove the passenger side wheelarch liner - it is tucked away at the back of the clamshell, by the door hinges.

(I suppose the point of a vacuum reservoir is to allow the heater controls etc to still work with the engine switched off????)
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Re: very rought start and fail to iddle after head gasket ch

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Thu 07.06.2018, 18:43

It really stabilizes the vacuum. They were more common in OLD cars with vacuum wiper motors which would stop working while climbing a steep hill but start again once leveled or going down hill.

A LOT of sensors and heater bits use the vacuum, thus the description: "Reservoir, vacuum, heater system"
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Re: very rought start and fail to iddle after head gasket ch

Postby Tuga2112 » Sat 09.06.2018, 21:11

right, so i has a chanse to confirm the symptoms. and found out theres no vacuum leak (unplugged the boost sensor pipe and the car started revving faster)
so, i went back to check the timing, and was off again by 2 degrees. so re-adjusted that as well. and then based on the post from epipete i screwed in the throtle body screw all the way in, and undo 1.5 turns..

my focus was taken from the iddle speed when i then noticed the oil leaking from underneath the oil radiator... so. new post asking for ideas there to follow.

i will revisit my iddle issue and update this when the oil situation is under controll.
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