Stereo Recommendations?

Moderators: theelanman, Sy V, Elanlover, muley, Enright, GeoffSmith, algirdas, nitroman, clemo, dapinky, Dave Eds, Specky, Nige, DaveT

Re: Stereo Recommendations?

Postby peteoddcar » Mon 24.04.2017, 19:40

I lied - I just looked my rear speakers are JBL's. The infinity ones did not fit the magnets were too big. Just be a bit wary of the depth some have massive magnets and may be too deep for the boxes.
Peteoddcar - Pacific Blue SE 1990
other sins :- 72 Dolomite Road Rally Car.'73 Mini 1275 Road Rally Car.
User avatar
peteoddcar
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu 26.11.2009, 23:41
Location: South Woodham Ferrers Essex

Re: Stereo Recommendations?

Postby Graaf » Tue 25.04.2017, 10:10

lotusflasherman wrote:
Graaf wrote:Well, I've fitted the new Blaupunkt Brisbane but it sounds like the speakers are shot.

Any recommendations?

Thanks


:lol: Brisbane has got 'a lotta welly" hasn't it?
My OE damp paper cones didn't last long after I'd fitted my 'Brisbane', so I tried these, after I'd sprayed them 'satin black' . Being waterproof the cones are plastic but can handle the power OK.
They sound Great to me but I've got tinnitus due to sitting in a race car and standing watching Clapton, Hendrix & Townsend using Marshall amp stacks so my only criteria is 'loud enough to get past the hiss'...
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Waterproof-Speakers-80W-5-4-Speakers-2Pair-fittings-Cable-Boat-Bathroom-AQ04-/172384922371


Don't talk to me a tinnitus! I went to too many Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, etc concerts in my youth.

I'll have a look at those speakers.
Graaf
Tinkerer
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed 22.04.2015, 16:47
Location: Arnold, Nottingham, England

Re: Stereo Recommendations?

Postby lotusflasherman » Tue 25.04.2017, 11:34

Graaf wrote:Don't talk to me a tinnitus! I went to too many Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, etc concerts in my youth.
I'll have a look at those speakers.


Pardon ? :lol: I blame Jim Marshall !

Speakers are very good, and for the money - fantastic value. They'll take full output from the Brisbane but the 5A Radio Fuse in the battery compartment won't. Had to fit a 10A there - see my earlier post on 6th April.
Phil

Leave me alone, I think I know what I'm doing.
Cars: Subaru Forester 2.5XTN, Eclat Riviera & brace of Pacific Blue SE's.... and now an Elan+2S !
User avatar
lotusflasherman
God
 
Posts: 1679
Joined: Fri 05.09.2008, 00:14
Location: Hadleigh, 15m west of Ipswich or 800 miles south (Cap d'Agde)

Re: Stereo Recommendations?

Postby basher » Fri 12.05.2017, 22:00

I thought I would report back on the stereo and fitting.
I love it.
The sound is clear, crisp and strong, so much so that I have already blown up the drivers door speaker. Which means I gave to go through the sodding rigmarole of taking the door card off again.
But not to worry, I took Phil's advice and brought some of those waterproof speakers, as I've always been a bit concerned about water in the door wrecking the speakers, so it will hopefully be worthwhile.
The unit seems powerful enough without an amp although I've got to test it fully on the open road.
I have run Max 80's my favourite internet radio station through my phone using the Bluetooth option and also used my I-pod through the auxiliary port. Both sound very nice.
I haven't managed to get the DAB working yet as the aerial I bought from Halfrauds appears to be absolute crap and not that pleasing to the eye either. I'm taking it back and trying that converter for your standard aerial instead.

Fitting wasn't too bad, there is a wiring diagram in the front of the manual and whilst your in Halfrauds getting fleeced for a DAB aerial that's crap, you take the stereo in with you and buy a connecting block to fit the back perfectly as the existing Elan connector won't work. It was 7 quid. I didn't do the fitting myself as I'm not skilled, but once you've sorted the speaker wires out there's not to many to deal with.
I'll take some photos when I get a chance.
User avatar
basher
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue 02.11.2010, 18:19
Location: Essex

Re: Stereo Recommendations?

Postby basher » Sun 11.06.2017, 13:20

Bit of an issue with the speakers.
Turns out they distort quite badly when they reach higher volume on bass. They weren't blown after all.
I have a 4x50 watt stereo, 2 x100 watt front speakers and 2x300 watt rear speakers and it appears that they aren't up to the job. Phil's waterproof ones had the same issue and were 80watt.( did you cut the door card to get them in Phil?)

It is a question of poor quality speakers or do I have to amp up the stereo's output do you reckon?
As I've said, I have no knowledge of this whatsoever!!
User avatar
basher
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue 02.11.2010, 18:19
Location: Essex

Re: Stereo Recommendations?

Postby Elanlover » Sun 11.06.2017, 15:33

basher wrote:Bit of an issue with the speakers.
Turns out they distort quite badly when they reach higher volume on bass. They weren't blown after all.
I have a 4x50 watt stereo, 2 x100 watt front speakers and 2x300 watt rear speakers and it appears that they aren't up to the job. Phil's waterproof ones had the same issue and were 80watt.( did you cut the door card to get them in Phil?)

It is a question of poor quality speakers or do I have to amp up the stereo's output do you reckon?
As I've said, I have no knowledge of this whatsoever!!


There's a lot involved in getting good sound out of our cars which make for one of the worst sound stages you can find. Lot's of road noise with the roof down means a loss of mid range and some at the bottom end as well. I've spent more money than I probably should have to get the system in my car sounding just right and it took a lot of trial and error (and money). In the end, I ditched the rear speakers (let's be honest, you can't really hear them anyway) and installed high end 6.5 coax speakers and an additional mid range speaker in the door with a 10" woofer in a custom built enclose on the trunk back wall. Blah, blah, blah.........back to your problem.

Don't point the finger at the speakers just yet. Your head unit or amp (if you have separate one) could also be the problem. I'd test that by running all the sound through the fronts and then the rears and slowly turning up the volume to see where the distortion occurs. Post the manufacturer and model numbers too. Your quoted speaker specs may be for max or continuous output - they are different. Have a look at the rating for continuous output and make sure that's not less than your head unit output. Unless you have damaged, mismatched or otherwise poor quality speakers your problem may lie with the head unit. A lot of these units are "rated" for 4x50 but can never really deliver it cleanly. When you get to the top end they can distort badly as the tiny integrated amp can't really manage it. I've got a dedicated amp (JL Audio class D HD 900/5) that outputs 4x100, 1x500, is good quality and compact. I can run the head unit at full volume with no distortion (scares the crap out of the neighbourhood kids). You could have bad cabling too - maybe just on one speaker. Testing them as per the above can help you determine that. If you're using the original cabling in the car that might not be up to the challenge for higher outputs. Also, keep in mind that speakers designed for high output need to run loud or they can actually sound like crap. Even good ones. Check the polarity of the wiring to each speaker is correct too.

Awaiting your thoughts....
I do whatever my Rice Crispies tell me to do
User avatar
Elanlover
Moderator
 
Posts: 3371
Joined: Fri 05.08.2005, 19:11
Location: The Great White North

Re: Stereo Recommendations?

Postby lotusflasherman » Sun 11.06.2017, 18:00

basher wrote:Bit of an issue with the speakers.
Turns out they distort quite badly when they reach higher volume on bass. They weren't blown after all.
I have a 4x50 watt stereo, 2 x100 watt front speakers and 2x300 watt rear speakers and it appears that they aren't up to the job. Phil's waterproof ones had the same issue and were 80watt.( did you cut the door card to get them in Phil?)

It is a question of poor quality speakers or do I have to amp up the stereo's output do you reckon?
As I've said, I have no knowledge of this whatsoever!!


So you have a 4x50 watt stereo and it's distorting on high volume bass through 2x100 & 2x200 watt speakers AND 4x80 watt speakers....???? seems to me it's probably distortion in the amplifier and just coming out the speakers...

"proper HiFi" units used to publish Total Harmonic Distortion graphs for various frequencies so you could anticipate when the amp would start "blowing raspberries" but never seen it for car head units..

Brisbane is 4 x 50 watt max power (4 x 26 watt sine a.k.a. RMS) and can be very loud without distortion at max volume on those cheap waterproof speakers, though I have a couple of mp3 tracks on SD card that seem to be saved at a higher default volume and those are too loud for me and the speakers ...

and to answer your question - fitted directly into door and door card went back on with original grill still in place....
speaker front.jpg


Speakers came in white but I sprayed all 4 in satin black before fitting so white doesn't show through the door card grills and rear speakers don't look too nasty. I thought rear might get scratched but still OK after a couple of years ...
speaker rear.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Phil

Leave me alone, I think I know what I'm doing.
Cars: Subaru Forester 2.5XTN, Eclat Riviera & brace of Pacific Blue SE's.... and now an Elan+2S !
User avatar
lotusflasherman
God
 
Posts: 1679
Joined: Fri 05.09.2008, 00:14
Location: Hadleigh, 15m west of Ipswich or 800 miles south (Cap d'Agde)

Re: Stereo Recommendations?

Postby Elanlover » Sun 11.06.2017, 19:22

If the head unit in question outputs 4x26 watts RMS and not peak then you'll never be able to turn it up enough to really hear those speakers with the roof down. Thus your need for max volume I would think. You'll probably never hear the rears with the roof up for that matter (although they might give your arse a massage through the seat). Also, you are seriously under driving those speakers (especially the ones rated for 300 watts - even if that's peak) and that can blow them just as easily as over driving them. It just takes longer to do so.
I do whatever my Rice Crispies tell me to do
User avatar
Elanlover
Moderator
 
Posts: 3371
Joined: Fri 05.08.2005, 19:11
Location: The Great White North

Re: Stereo Recommendations?

Postby basher » Mon 12.06.2017, 23:04

Phil, did you have to cut the mounting plastic (attached to door) to get it the speaker to fit?
I did a bit and the speaker still sat to high to get the door card back on.
I can see two outcomes
1. I'm a blithering idiot
2. The speakers have changed design slightly since you or I bought them.

Interestingly I had a bit of a play to see if I could get them to intentionally distort. Playing 'Max' Internet 80's radio through my phones Bluetooth the stereo goes to maximum, the sound was clean and I didn't get distortion although I didn't play anything really bassy. I notice that Bluetooth is generally quieter to start with so you have to turn it up more in the first instance
Playing the CD of Sawdust by The Killers I got distortion on the drivers side front but not on the passenger. Which got me thinking the speaker must be stuffed as the wiring would be the same on either side.
The speakers behind the seats dont seem to distort but they offer no high end. Probably doesn't help that there's a dirty great seat in the way.
Fronts are some 100 watt Longmill I had in the garage which I put in when the old speakers fell apart through age.
Backs are some brand which I found to exactly fit the existing hole in the rear speaker mount. Not hugely expensive but powerful.
I still have the original amp, I suppose I could reconnect it and see if it makes a difference?
User avatar
basher
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue 02.11.2010, 18:19
Location: Essex

Re: Stereo Recommendations?

Postby Elanlover » Tue 13.06.2017, 00:53

Sounds like it may be one speaker then. If you have a decent amplifier on hand adding it into the system will help you get more volume but won't solve your single, bad speaker issue. The stock speaker mount is thin plastic and is raised to support the stock speakers that were there. Adding new speakers to this mount can easily cause them to bump up against the speaker grill in the door card as they'll sit higher than the stock ones would. Luckily, you can easily get some plastic and make a new mount without the raised section.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
I do whatever my Rice Crispies tell me to do
User avatar
Elanlover
Moderator
 
Posts: 3371
Joined: Fri 05.08.2005, 19:11
Location: The Great White North

Re: Stereo Recommendations?

Postby lotusflasherman » Tue 13.06.2017, 12:34

basher wrote:Phil, did you have to cut the mounting plastic (attached to door) to get it the speaker to fit?


Can't remember, too long ago, and haven't had the door cards off to refresh my memory. Didn't take me long to fit them so nothing was memorable.. other than OE speakers have a big tag and small tag for spade connectors so you can't get polarity mixed up and the waterproof speakers had two big tags. I changed the spades on the rear speaker leads but decided to cut down the tags with side cutters on the door speaker installation. If you get the polarity mixed, they'll still work but without the proper bass response. Generally speaking, phone files don't produce a lot of bass as their speakers and earphones can't reproduce the really low stuff, even some CD's are a bit lacking when compared to vinyl ....

.. and Elanlover, I think from the " outputs 4x26 watts RMS and not peak then you'll never be able to turn it up enough" you've got the values the wrong way round. For the same output, the RMS value is always a lower figure than the peak value...

In the case of a pure sine wave, RMS x square root of 2 (1.414 etc) gives the peak value. e.g UK mains voltage is supplied at 240V a.c. (RMS value is quoted, as the power it delivers is equivalent to 240V d.c.), but the peak voltage for the purposes of insulation values is 340V.

The DIN Spec for audio is more complicated but the ratio is closer to 2:1 .. 26 watt sine (RMS) is equivalent to 50 watt max. power (peak).... 26 watts peak would only be around 14 watts sine (RMS)
Phil

Leave me alone, I think I know what I'm doing.
Cars: Subaru Forester 2.5XTN, Eclat Riviera & brace of Pacific Blue SE's.... and now an Elan+2S !
User avatar
lotusflasherman
God
 
Posts: 1679
Joined: Fri 05.09.2008, 00:14
Location: Hadleigh, 15m west of Ipswich or 800 miles south (Cap d'Agde)

Re: Stereo Recommendations?

Postby uk08462 » Wed 14.06.2017, 12:56

I was looking into all of this as I wanted DAB and iPhone connectivity but was put off by the thought of having to replace the areal. However when the turbo in my daily BMW 320D broke (me to BMW service man "I have a 24 year old Lotus and the turbo in that has not broken...") I faced a long commute to get to work using the Elan.

After doing a little digging on the internet I remembered that I had an old FM transmitter in the garage that I bought years ago to allow me to play my iPod in the car. I dug it out, put new batteries in it, plugged it into the headphone jack on my phone and tuned into the correct FM waveband on the headset in the Elan. This not only allowed me to use the DAB app on my iPhone, but also podcasts as well, and to my amazement, turned the phone into a hands free set for the car using the car speakers (admittedly using the microphone on the phone itself).

All for the cost of nothing. Now that makes a change....

Note: All station setting was done whilst the car was stationary!
S2 #048 BRG
User avatar
uk08462
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon 01.06.2009, 20:48
Location: Bournemouth

Re: Stereo Recommendations?

Postby Fredjohn » Wed 14.06.2017, 13:35

uk08462 wrote:I was looking into all of this as I wanted DAB and iPhone connectivity but was put off by the thought of having to replace the areal.


See my post earlier in this thread: you don't need to replace the aerial :D :D

Yours is a nice solution though: I seem to recall using one of these small devices for the same purpose when digital music players first came out. I must still have it somewhere......
La vie passe vite: vivez la avec elan(s).

Elan S4 DHC 1969
Elan SE turbo 1992
MB CLK 320CDi 2007
Boardman Team Carbon road bike
Evora 2010
VW T4 Campervan
User avatar
Fredjohn
God
 
Posts: 1336
Joined: Tue 21.08.2012, 00:30
Location: Malvern, Worcs

Re: Stereo Recommendations?

Postby Elanlover » Wed 14.06.2017, 14:10

lotusflasherman wrote: .. and Elanlover, I think from the " outputs 4x26 watts RMS and not peak then you'll never be able to turn it up enough" you've got the values the wrong way round. For the same output, the RMS value is always a lower figure than the peak value...


I think this is exactly what I mean though. If the 4x50 figure was in fact RMS then you'd probably be ok. Given that this is the peak (PMPO) rating number and RMS is only 4x26, which is the only number that matters, then you're not going to get much volume out of that system. An additional amp is probably needed. In fact, its not a bad strategy to use a high quality head unit that has a lower output and mate that to a good amp to let the amp do all the heavy lifting. You're likely to get better sound that way (a lot of competition systems are configured this way along with DSPs', line drivers, blah, blah, blah).

It does sound like the issue is one speaker though. However, without an amp, those rears rated at 300w, will be seriously under driven.
I do whatever my Rice Crispies tell me to do
User avatar
Elanlover
Moderator
 
Posts: 3371
Joined: Fri 05.08.2005, 19:11
Location: The Great White North

Re: Stereo Recommendations?

Postby uk08462 » Wed 14.06.2017, 16:59

Fredjohn wrote:
uk08462 wrote:I was looking into all of this as I wanted DAB and iPhone connectivity but was put off by the thought of having to replace the areal.


See my post earlier in this thread: you don't need to replace the aerial :D :D


Hi Fredjohn - I was going to comment on your recommendation but was too lazy to come out of my Reply to give you a namecheck! If I do get round to replacing the head unit I shall definitely follow your lead
S2 #048 BRG
User avatar
uk08462
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon 01.06.2009, 20:48
Location: Bournemouth

Previous

Return to Electrical / Electronics / Stereo / Lights etc.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests