hazard warning

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hazard warning

Postby transcup » Wed 28.06.2017, 11:57

Been to an MOT today and they say it will fail.Elan S2 1996
Car only done 40000 miles
If I switch the hazard lights on nothing happens unless I switch indicator arm on [left or right] then the flashers all work and the red light flashes on the switch .
All indicators flash as normal now

They say they is a fail as switch needs to work on its own without engaging indicator stalk

Mechanic said it could be fixed with a diode to stop feedback? didn't understand him.
I can solder and generally fix things

Have taken switch out and reseated it and doesn't make a difference

What can I try now to repair
Where can you get a similar switch from , I see people mention Vauxhall carlton?
I don't want to get another switch if fault is else where
Any suggestions where to start
thanks
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Re: hazard warning

Postby lotusflasherman » Wed 28.06.2017, 15:09

Problem is Hazard switch is rarely used and contacts tarnish. Threads on here about it from time to time ... some have taken the switch to bits and cleaned the contacts with success, have found turning the switch on & off multiple times was a cure.

It is a GM switch but in Vauxhalls the symbols are in white, not red, but one of those will get you through an MOT. They are rare - www.ebay.co.uk/itm/lotus-carlton-vauxhall-carlton-gsi-hazard-light-switch-very-rare but Lotus even rarer and 'silly money', which is why owners try refurbishing them first..

Might help if you added your location to your profile... I've got a spare, somewhere, and another in an SE on SORN and be happy to lend one for an hour or two to overcome the immediate (MOT) problem..
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Re: hazard warning

Postby lotusflasherman » Wed 28.06.2017, 15:24

Now that's silly money ... Lotus-Elan-M100-S2-Hazard-Warning-Switch-B100M6016F-Genuine-Lotus-Hazard-Switch/272329627278

and this person, who is also a member on this site, should be ashamed of himself - stating it's a genuine Lotus when it's a bloody Vauxhall ... wrong colour symbol mate ! and I'm sure you know it .. :chair:

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lotus-Elan-Hazard-Warning-Switch-Part-No-B100M6016F-for-Elan-M100-/282430598143
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Re: hazard warning

Postby dapinky » Wed 28.06.2017, 16:13

lotusflasherman wrote:..... and I'm sure you know it .. ..



I did point it out to him a while ago, and the ebay listing at that time was ammended to reflect the fact that the picture showed a Vauxhall item, but a Lotus one would be supplied.....

...... maybe it's still the same - but I'm not going to spend a ton to find out!

(of course, should the OP order this one from Ebay, then raise a dispute with the seller IF it is NOT the part as described, I'm sure that Ebay would return the money to him, and then the seller is responsible for arranging collection due to the missleading advert....... and in the meantime, the car may well pass an MOT.....)
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Re: hazard warning

Postby Rob P » Wed 28.06.2017, 17:24

Hi Steve,
As you are based in Preston I would be happy for you to try my switch from the Yellow peril to see if it is indeed a faulty switch. Just give me a nudge
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Re: hazard warning

Postby Simon_P » Wed 28.06.2017, 19:06

transcup wrote:What can I try now to repair
Where can you get a similar switch from , I see people mention Vauxhall carlton?
I don't want to get another switch if fault is else where
Any suggestions where to start
thanks

You could try the search function top right!
That will inform you of 80 % of what you want to know.

Take the switch apart and clean the contacts.
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Re: hazard warning

Postby lotusflasherman » Wed 28.06.2017, 20:50

dapinky wrote: I did point it out to him a while ago, and the ebay listing at that time was amended to reflect the fact that the picture showed a Vauxhall item, but a Lotus one would be supplied.....

...... maybe it's still the same - but I'm not going to spend a ton to find out!

(of course, should the OP order this one from Ebay, then raise a dispute with the seller IF it is NOT the part as described, I'm sure that Ebay would return the money to him, and then the seller is responsible for arranging collection due to the missleading advert....... and in the meantime, the car may well pass an MOT.....)


Well Dave, if you've already pointed it out there's no excuse for a listing headed Lotus and a photo showing a white symbol which we know isn't Lotus, and there's nothing to say "it's Vauxhall in the photo but" - etc... It's so easy to take a photo of the actual item you're selling with a smart phone that I suspect there's a deliberate deception going on ... however, at least it's new and it wouldn't be too much trouble to swap the guts of the new switch into your original Lotus plastic if colour was an issue. End result would be better and cheaper than £128 for a used one of unknown reliability from DVB. But if you are going to pull the switch to bits, chances are the original will clean up anyway...

I like your idea of 'borrow a switch' but could the seller say the photo, with white symbol, is part of the description too?...His argument being "I sent what you saw in the photo"...
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Re: hazard warning

Postby dapinky » Wed 28.06.2017, 21:02

Phil,

whilst the photo is "obviously" the Vauxhall part, the #part number listed is for the Lotus item - so, an arguement of "I bought a part which was listed as B100M6016F for Elan M100, and then I found out that it wasn't that item" would be a winner.

(and swapping the plastic is easy - you don't have to go into the gubbins at all - the triangle is just on a small square of plastic 'plug' which can be prised out with a stanley blade and swapped over).

Of course, all of this assumes that the switches are not in a sealed-from-the-factory bag with that Lotus part number on them, and thus are advertised correctly, albeit that Lotus have supplied an incorrect item (yeah, right!).
Dave

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Re: hazard warning

Postby lotusflasherman » Wed 28.06.2017, 23:08

Dave,
Dead easy to get the colour of your choice then ... :lol:

I'm wondering if dunking the switch into vinegar (sherry vinegar is around 7% acetic acid, others usually 5%) might be a simple way to clean the contacts and get it working again without pulling it to bits, don't think it will affect the plastic. Bunging a couple of tarnished copper coins in as well will give an indication of when it's done the job. Rinse in water and dry out with some warmth and... who knows? :lol:

I've got a Digital Milliohmmeter, a.k.a Ductor Tester, used for measuring down to 0.01mΩ so would be interested to do a before and after measurement of contact resistances, all I need are some Hazard switches that are not working to play with ... will return to the original owner afterwards. PM me if interested ...
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Re: hazard warning

Postby transcup » Thu 29.06.2017, 18:55

Hello
Yes I have read other posts on site before posting my query
Took switch apart didn't need cleaning but struggled to get it back together, now hazards don't work at all even with indicator on.
Have ordered new switch to see if this fixes problem before looking else where.
Could the relay be faulty?
Appreciate your comments
Steve
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Re: hazard warning

Postby lotusflasherman » Thu 29.06.2017, 20:04

Could be faulty relay but you've got some permanent live wires in there and if you didn't isolate the battery you may have popped a fuse ...

Check 10A fuses A11 and A16 are OK before you go any further ... wondering whether A11 might have been causing your problem at the start ...

hazard fuse11.JPG


S2 hazard circuit.jpg
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Re: hazard warning

Postby GeoffSmith » Thu 29.06.2017, 21:19

transcup wrote:If I switch the hazard lights on nothing happens unless I switch indicator arm on [left or right] then the flashers all work and the red light flashes on the switch .

Definitely a switch problem - the connection from the hazard flasher via pin 49a wasn't making contact to the L and R pins. By flicking the indicator, you were making connection to either L or R. The fact that both left & right indicators and the hazard switch light flashed proved that L was connected to R which was connected to the hazard switch light. The only pin not connected was 49a.
Getting the internals of the hazard switch correct is quite critical so if fuse A11 is intact then I would imagine that a new switch will cure your problem.
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Re: hazard warning

Postby transcup » Wed 12.07.2017, 12:58

Geoff

Got new hazard switch , does same as original one.
Hazards only come on when you push turn indicator down / up
Checked fuses as indicated all OK
Could it be the flasher unit?
what to try / do next
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Re: hazard warning

Postby GeoffSmith » Wed 12.07.2017, 18:09

The flasher unit works correctly when the indicator makes the connection, so the problem is on line 34D between the flasher unit and the hazard switch. It may be the wiring, it may be the connection IPHC/B9 but I would strongly suspect it is the connection to pin 49A of the hazard switch.
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Re: hazard warning

Postby transcup » Wed 12.07.2017, 19:47

Geoff
Thanks for reply
It had new central locking system fitted by south west lotus just before I bought it.
This flashes all indicators when operated .
Maybe they disturbed something
They are in Plymouth me preston so I can't take it back.
I don't understand where to get at connections to check they are intact.
It looks like I will need to get an electrical specialist to look at it.
Very annoying as car was bought from them with 12 months mot and fault was on it at the time,yet local mot station will not pass it.and paid strong money.
iPhc b9 joint where is it to check?
Thanks
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Re: hazard warning

Postby transcup » Thu 13.07.2017, 17:30

Hello all
Thanks for all your help
Finally found problem after lots of time and expense , which was not needed.
Bought switch and relay, didn't resolve problem
Problem was found under top cover on dashboard.
Three big connectors wrapped in foam.
The middle one being the hazards loom.
Waggling the wires the hazards all started working as normal intermittently .
After fiddling undoing connector blocks for a while they now appear to stay on.
Lets hope its OK for MOT.
Had another issue with fans not tripping in, again down to loose connector.
An absolute pig to find these.
Worth checking if you have these issues before you rush out to but new switches.
My original one was ok until I stripped it down waste of cash!
You learn something every day
Regards
Steve
:D :D
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Re: hazard warning

Postby CalElan » Thu 13.07.2017, 21:51

I've learned to jump on here at the first signs of ANY trouble and do a search and then ask around.
Most problems have a way simpler solution than the ones that instantly spring to my mind.
This place will literally save you hours and $$$$ too.

BUT, at least you have it fixed!
Happy motoring!
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Re: hazard warning

Postby Rob P » Fri 14.07.2017, 10:27

Glad to hear you got it sorted Steve, I did offer the use of my switch to help determine root cause, might have saved you the cost of the switch at least. I suppose loose connections go hand in hand with all classic/modern classic car ownership.
Good luck with the MOT, hopefully no more gremlins will appear prior to getting that important slip of paper
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