oxygen sensor not EGR

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oxygen sensor not EGR

Postby Tannerman » Wed 18.04.2012, 14:00

Hi guys, i have a 1990 SE which does not have a oxygen sensor fitted (no cat)

I want to fit a Mountain chip but i have been advised to fir the 02 first?

I know where to get one from and where it goes but where does it wire up.

I have had a look and can see no available wiring under that side on the engine where it might/should be wired.

Anyone fitted the chip to my model any issues etc.

cheers guys

John

***changed to oxygen sensor got mixed up*****
Last edited by Tannerman on Fri 20.04.2012, 21:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EGR Valve

Postby madbilly » Thu 19.04.2012, 22:02

Hi John,

I have a Dec 1990 SE and it has an EGR valve, I don't think it's anything to do with having a cat but I could be wrong - I think it's the brass pipe that comes from the turbo and goes round the back of the intake manifold.

I don't have a mountain chip so don't know what you'd need to fit to get the best from it, except maybe convert to closed loop for the V5 switcher.

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Re: EGR Valve

Postby ashm » Thu 19.04.2012, 22:48

Tannerman wrote:Hi guys, i have a 1990 SE which does not have a EGR valve fitted (no cat)
I want to fit a Mountain chip but i have been advised to fir the EGR first?


I don't really see what the EGR valve (or any other part of the EGR system) has to do with getting a Mountain chip. Also, I don't see what it has to do with having a cat. I'd be interested to know why it was removed and whether it made any difference other than saving a little weight, as some on the forum have considered removing the EGR system. I believe all Elans had the EGR when they left the factory. Can you give us any more information?
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Re: EGR Valve

Postby dapinky » Fri 20.04.2012, 07:59

I've got a few thoughts, but please don't confuse that as being the same as 'facts' or 'being right'.....

AFAIK the EGR system is fitted to all Turbo elans, (but I'm not sure if the NA has it?????) as a means of controlling emmissions (or helping to do so) under certain conditions, by allowing excess exhaust gasses to recirculate into the intake and burn up any hydrocarbons in it.

It is a bit of a 'power sapper' as the best ignition comes from a dense (hence cooler) intake charge, and chucking hot exhaust gasses into the system aint good - i know of a couple of people who have just removed the EGR and fitted a blanking plate (or 2), but they have concerns about passing emmissions tests at MOT time (but i don't know what the actual readings may or may not be).

I can't see what difference the EGR system would have to a mountain chip, other than perhaps a worry by the fitter that without the system, and with more power (hence more fuel!), the system may under/overfuel and not work, or cause damage :? :?

Can't really think of anything else......
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Re: EGR Valve

Postby bobbrown » Fri 20.04.2012, 10:00

Dave,

It is fitted to the NA engine as well
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Re: EGR Valve

Postby dapinky » Fri 20.04.2012, 15:48

Thanks Bob - I learnt something new :D
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Re: oxygen sensor not EGR

Postby Alan_C » Sat 21.04.2012, 23:39

I've fitted closed loop to my 1990 SE, the wiring was all there in the right hand wing. I have read that some cars had all or part of the wiring missing though.
As for EGR, nothing to do with O2 sensors or mountain chips at all. The chip upgrade will work with or without the EGR fitted. The EGR (should) only operate on light throttle openings under light cruse condition, e.g. holding steady cruise speed on a motorway or similar. It won't be open at tickover, so won't effect emmissions tests, nor will it be open on boost. I agree with Pinky about reasons for removal, and remove all EGR systems from my diesel cars, one reason is they clog the intake manifold with soft tar, on one occasion costing me £1000 to find the fault! Don't get this on a petrol engine, so have left the EGR on the Elan in place.
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Re: oxygen sensor not EGR

Postby bobbrown » Sat 21.04.2012, 23:55

You need to be careful if you remove the EGR system from cars, that includes some of the modern diesels as the ECU will not know the ERG system has been removed/disabled and lean the mixture and alter the timing when it thinks the valve is open. In an ideal world the fuel and ignition maps on the Elan would need to be modified, OK an O2 sensor will help as will the knock sensor in maintaining the correct fueling and ignition timing.
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Re: oxygen sensor not EGR

Postby norman lovie » Sun 22.04.2012, 19:36

can't validate this, something I must have read on the Web - so it must be fact :roll: - anyway
"EGR can effect surpressing knock" - something to do with the burnt gas composition
I dare say, you could possible run more ignition - given it expects the EGR to feed into the inlet, if it doesn't get the feed - you then get a bit of knock = ECU then negatively adapts, which then holds back performance after the EGR is closed ???

might be worth logging an engine with EGR functioning - then pull the plug on the valve and see if you get any data changes
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Re: oxygen sensor not EGR

Postby Alan_C » Sun 22.04.2012, 21:16

Hmm, EGR would only be open under light engine loads, under light engine load there shouldn't be any knock. Imagine the engine is under heavy load, so exhaust velocity is high, open the EGR valve and exhaust under high pressure enters inlet tract.......wouldn't be a good thing.
Last edited by Alan_C on Sun 22.04.2012, 23:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: oxygen sensor not EGR

Postby hodge » Sun 22.04.2012, 23:23

Interesting point. Has anyone heard of these valves failing, ie sticking open or only partially closing as in the way of thermostats and such.
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Re: oxygen sensor not EGR

Postby Alan_C » Sun 22.04.2012, 23:45

Another point is they are quite an intrusive lump in the inlet tract, so another reason to remove it rather than simply blank it off. Not really so important on a high boost turbo engine though. Many of the diesel EGR removal kits available include a new part to completely replace the valve with a straight pipe and blank off the exhaust. But this isn't really appropriate nor relavant to out engine really. Another point of trivia - it's being considered by VOSA that during an MOT additional checks will be to ensure that the EGR system is present and functional, and also that an "illegal" (their words) tuning or chip box hasn't been fitted........
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Re: oxygen sensor not EGR

Postby HJ2 » Thu 08.02.2018, 16:40

Any new insights on this?

I suspect my EGR valve is hanging and I either want to remove it completely (what blanking kit should i Use please?) or replace the valve with a new one (already tried cleaning), A partnumber / source for a replacement would be convenient for this.
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Re: oxygen sensor not EGR

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Thu 08.02.2018, 17:40

HJ: The original part number from Isuzu was 8 94360128 0 making the GM part number 94360128.
It apparently was superseded by 97024387 but unfortunately, was discontinued on February 1, 2001.

I was not able to find any on any of the GM OEM obsolescence sites.

Since it only opens when vacuum is applied, why not take it off, clean the actual needle and seat if necessary and then test it to be sure it isn't leaking and then just plug the vacuum line. It will look correct for emission testing but won't cause any other issues.

We used to clean them using a hand-held compressed air spark plug cleaner. You could also use a glass-bead or similar cleaner as well as ultrasound. You would have to be very thorough cleaning it after blasting it with abrasives so they are all removed before re-installation.

I bought up all of the remaining spare parts from the website http://www.lotusm100parts.com late last year and his inventory list shows that I was supposed to get two new ones in the deal. The parts are still boxed up and in storage as most of them were not high demand items and reassembling my yellow car has taken a higher position on the work time schedule. I also have several chunks of engines in the shop and there is probably a used one on one of them. IF there are really two in the storage, they are $99.00 each and if you really want a new one, I would be willing to dig through the boxes and confirm they exist.
Let me know if you really think you want one.
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Re: oxygen sensor not EGR

Postby HJ2 » Sun 11.02.2018, 16:39

Thanks John.
I will take it out again and see if a good ultrasonic clean will help. I think it is stuck open a little
Are there any off the shelf blanking plates available?
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Re: oxygen sensor not EGR

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sun 11.02.2018, 16:50

None that I am aware of. Sorry
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