Fitting Bob's gear cables

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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Fri 13.12.2013, 22:30

Since it is just an oil change, you could let it sit and drip for a long while or get the majority of the oil, refill it and make plans to do it again around summer when it is warmer and you can maybe get it higher off the ground with ramps or jack and stands. Remember to just loosen the bolt holding the speedo cable clamp in place. It is a bit*h to put back in. Just loosen it enough to rotate the holder out of the way and pull the cable bit out of the gearbox. You might want to do that first so that if you have any problems, you won't have emptied out the oil. That way you can figure out the process and do it later.
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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby tigerdog » Sun 15.12.2013, 01:33

I changed Smaug's transmission oil cold. I just made sure I could remove the speedo cable from the filler and get a funnel there, then opened the drain plug and let it drain overnight. The car was jacked up such that it had a bit of a lean toward the drain. I replaced the drain, filled with the appropriate quantity or Redline MT-90 and was rewarded by much-improved shifting. There's a nice long discussion about transmission lubes in this thread.
"Refitting is the reverse sequence to removal, but you swear in different places."
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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby epipete » Mon 16.12.2013, 23:48

It's a good job that I'm not on an hourly rate! But some further progress was made today insomuch as I finally removed the old cables :bananasex:

I now have several issues, the literature/advice suggests that the cables should be of different lengths, and certainly those that came out are, but those that I am intending to put back in seem so similar as to be the same.

image.jpg


image.jpg


I could not detect any notable difference between the two (old and 'new') brackets!

image.jpg


For those whom 'knocking the pin out' of the gear changer need not panic the following picture shows the 3 welds that hold it in place they really are weak.

image.jpg


And finally, I wonder if anyone has previously taken a saw to my gear lever! Has anyone measured theirs?
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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby Jeemy » Mon 16.12.2013, 23:59

Honestly, thats a question I never dared ask! I do definitely intend to take a saw to my gear lever. Just a bit, maybe 0.5 - 1 inch. MIne is really long, I will measure it and see if yours is shorter.

How does a slim 6.5" feel in your hand? From memory I guess, as its obviously a long time since you wrapped your fingers round one while driving o.o
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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby epipete » Tue 17.12.2013, 00:04

You make me blush :oops: :shock:
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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Tue 17.12.2013, 00:07

First of all, you had a set of S2 cables installed, not SE. If you measure the outer jacket length on the new cables - from the end of the threaded bulkhead connector to opposite end, you should find that one outer jacket is shorter than the other. Once you put all of the adapters and such on the cables, it is difficult to see there is a difference.

You can also take the adapters back off the inner cable sections and measure end to end. One should be 1210mm (47.625") and the other 1235mm (48.625").

The picture isn't sharp enough to tell if one of the brackets is a Bob B. version or a reclaimed S2 bracket (neither is nice and shiney suggesting a new part). The Bob B. bracket has the 2 large holes raised 5.5mm above horizontal plane. Not a big deal if not. there is a lot of misalignment allowance with the spherical ends.

I will measure a stock gear lever and post later tonight.
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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Tue 17.12.2013, 00:13

A stock gear lever is 7 3/8", so your's has been cut down almost an inch.

The cable length is important so don't swap them around because you will not have enough adjustment to make it work.
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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby epipete » Tue 17.12.2013, 00:46

Thanks John.

Ok, so the 'old' black cables that I removed came off an S2, 1996 Lotus Elan S2 Limited Edition Number 528, having had the cables installed in Sept 11, so this change would have been made by a previous owner, would the bracket have been installed at the same time? Did SE's not have a bracket originally?

I know the 'new' mauve cables along with the bracket came off an S2

If these mauve cables (which others have identified as being Bob's) came off an S2 then how, if they're shorter, did they fit? What and why the difference between the two cars?

Need to digest this, indeed, as they originally came from off an S2. I thought that I had a bargain whereas it appears that I am, if you'll excuse the vernacular, buggered! It's just as well that it's going to rain until January!

Pete
Last edited by epipete on Tue 17.12.2013, 10:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby Peter_W » Tue 17.12.2013, 09:40

The SE (and Fed) brackets had larger diameter holes for mounting the cables, so Bob provided a bracket patterned after the S2 bracket:
forum.lotuselancentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=19070&start=20#p246769

The bracket to the right in your picture matches the bracket I received in Bob's kit.
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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby Peter_W » Tue 17.12.2013, 10:08

Also, from page one of the original group buy thread: "...the cross gate is 1235mm and the main cable is 1210mm overall length with 2" of travel"..."with regards to cable lengths, they may appear short but you have to add in the rod ends and adapters which takes them to the original lengths give or take a little bit as there is 20mm of adjustment on the cable lengths c/o the rod ends and adapters. That adjustment is in addition to the adjustment on the cable bracket which is another 25mm".
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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby epipete » Tue 17.12.2013, 10:55

Thanks Peter, I was reading the same thread as you posted!

So perhaps all is not lost, though it concerns me greatly because of John's comment not to proceed (and he has kinda previously proved to be infallible!) I guess I had better get measuring!

Pete
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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby epipete » Tue 17.12.2013, 12:50

Well, I've measured and measured and measured and I can't find any value the equates to any distance along either cable. This may be because my age when the UK went metric whereby I still measure in a hybrid of metric/imperial (afterall what kind of length is a millimetre anyway?) but also I can't figure out what it is that I'm supposed to measure!

My only conclusion currently is that there is a difference of 25mm (or more sensibly 2.5cm, or even better, nearly an inch) in the advised cable lengths.

Oh, and that they came off a Lotus M100 so surely they should fit on an other one despite it being an SE
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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Tue 17.12.2013, 14:03

Pete: The difference is 1 inch (give or take). The longer cable is the crossgate and the shorter one is the fore-aft. You will have to guestimate all of the other adjustments since Bob never published ideal dimensions for any of his fittings.

Assemble the shift lever end first making sure that you can put the shift lever in the correct positions for all of the gears. You will have to thread the outer housings (big thread) into the bulkhead adapters, snap ring them into place and then adjust the total length at the inline adapters. If you can't get enough reach, you need to screw the cable deeper into the bulkhead adapters. Then install the cables into the body and adjust the gearbox end so that the shift lever is where you prefer it to be - the factory guide suggests using third (3rd) gear as the deciding factor.

The bracket on the left of you picture is definitely the later S2 bracket but the one to the right appears to be more corroded, so maybe the early S2 bracket was more rounded. The cables will work fine with either the stocl S2 bracket or the Bob B. bracket. Both the S2 and the Bob B. cables use a 5/8" bulkhead thread.
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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Tue 17.12.2013, 14:20

epipete wrote:Thanks John.

Ok, so the 'old' black cables that I removed came off an S2, 1996 Lotus Elan S2 Limited Edition Number 528, having had the cables installed in Sept 11, so this change would have been made by a previous owner, would the bracket have been installed at the same time? Did SE's not have a bracket originally?

I know the 'new' mauve cables along with the bracket came off an S2

If these mauve cables (which others have identified as being Bob's) came off an S2 then how, if they're shorter, did they fit? What and why the difference between the two cars?

Need to digest this, indeed, as they originally came from off an S2. I thought that I had a bargain whereas it appears that I am, if you'll excuse the vernacular, buggered! It's just as well that it's going to rain until January!

Pete

OK, the SE bracket had huge holes for the twist-lock adjusters used on the SE cables. It also had completely different offsets which put the cable outer jackets too close to the gearbox levers.

The mauve cables are those provided in a Bob B. kit and there is NO DIFFERENCE between SE and S2 kits. The only factor to consider is that one cable is 1 inch (25.4mm) longer than the other and the long cable is the crossgate cable (the upper lever that moves the crossgate up and down to select 1/2 vs 3/4 or 5/R).

The fact that they were already installed means that you should be able to identify the long one and assemble as suggested and the adjustments should be close. Also, if you didn't have to assemble the cables yourself, the crossgate has a different connection at the shifter than the fore-aft. Just put it together as you got them and don't mix up the adapter pieces. In your picture, the fore-aft cable appears to be the one marked with red tape and the crossgate is marked with green tape.

If you didn't have to assemble them yourself - they are just as they were when taken off the S2 - then you should have no problems just installing them as they were. If you had to put the ends on the cables, then make sure the long cable is the one going to the lever you knocked the pin out of.
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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby epipete » Fri 20.12.2013, 00:32

Well, they are in :bananasex: but as yet they are untested although the gear stick moves the cables around but I have still to tighten up the gearbox end fasteners.
image.jpg


What a nightmare I found that to be, I think that if something could go wrong it did, I'm currently too traumatised to detail it all, tomorrow I shall tightens the links and see if I can get some gear selection. I seem to have scope for some adjustment so if I can figure out the position of the levers in relation to neutral and the gears then I may be ok. I prey that they don't have to come out and be redone.

Pete
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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby epipete » Wed 25.12.2013, 19:27

Well, 6 days have lapsed since I last took any action on these wretched cables (I became entrenched in other matters) but finally, today, I decided that I needed confidence in that I have the correct cables in the correct position, and thought I'd take them back out to measure again.

So they are, again, sat on my kitchen floor awaiting further investigation tomorrow.
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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby niall » Wed 25.12.2013, 19:44

Good to know that you were not entrenched in other less important matters today then! :-D
Good luck with your boxing day treat. I trust that all will go smoothly and that on reinstall,
the gears will shift as they should.
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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby epipete » Wed 25.12.2013, 19:56

I've spent a while umming and ahing as to how best to proceed and fearing that they would have to come out again but lacking the desire, but, today, I thought I have 10 minutes spare, several beers and a bottle of Madeira inside me and I could just take them out and forget about them for the rest if the day. So I did!!!

Now sat down, with Tchaikovsky on telly, yet another beer and an Ipad so I can review the recent good advice provided ready to rejoin the battle tomorrow (or maybe the next day!).
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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby Peter_W » Thu 26.12.2013, 01:01

epipete wrote:...several beers and a bottle of Madeira...yet another beer

^^Often the predecessor to notable decisions, often followed by "hey everybody, watch this" :D

Looking forward to your successful results with pics! :smt023
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Re: Fitting Bob's gear cables

Postby epipete » Thu 26.12.2013, 01:56

Well, having taken them out and laying them on the kitchen floor, despite playing board games this evening, and my better half taking to bed with a migraine, they have continued 'calling to me' and so I re-measured them and it appears that the cables were inserted correctly (but at least I'm now sure) after all, so despite being early on Boxing Day I have reinserted them in the car, lest I wake the neighbours with noise. I've ceased work for the night and will reattach them tomorrow - it would appear that it is merely (a very worrysome word) a matter of adjustment! All will be revealed!
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