Base timing

[dapinky]

Ahh....I didn't know that - thanks Geoff!

So it will be just a case of seeing where it needs to be on the various 'mountain' options, and the open/closed shouldn't matter.

[rip]

Ok, I got the timing light out yesterday.
After my timed runs in the week, it was set to ­12°bdtc. Great!, I'll forward it another 4° & try it again. Now down to 11.0 seconds (now on a slight downhill gradient too).
I then realised that I'd been a right dopey tart & not put the car into service mode
Once in service mode, I found out it was now 20°btdc....so it was set to 16°btdc before I started today.
Onve reset to 16°btdc: tried again...7.0 seconds .
Sorry guys, but I have not scanned my Elan for several months, so no log files to look at.
My Elan was well warmed up before I did any testing so (aside from the slight downhill gradient today) the only difference was ignition timing & fuel burn between each test ... & the quick run in the week was done with lights on & a steering rack in the passenger seat!

I have a stock 9929 chip with a 2¼" Piper, so boost is upped by only creep.
Other mods (minor though) are MSD coil pack, LGM intake pipe & K&N air filter.

I think that when my timing was 'reset' after I failed to do this properly, then it was probably set closer to tdc than 16°btdc.
I have not heard any overrun since last week.
The exhaust is now less sooty.
It no longer splutters to life (which I quite liked the sound of), but now fires up to a nice burble.
I don't get overboost at 4500rpm any more. I have taken it up to 6000rpm without an issue (although I don't make a habit of revving it up this high).

So my conclusion is that 16°btdc is still correct even after the modifications I have made....
I would not have been so convinced if I had not tinkered with it, so I''m glad I asked the question.

[Monty]

I have taken it up to 6000rpm without an issue (although I don't make a habit of revving it up this high).

is that all

[rip]

I have taken it up to 6000rpm without an issue (although I don't make a habit of revving it up this high).

is that all

Rarely take it anywhere near that high.

[nitroman]

I set the timing on the yellow car for the first time yesterday. It was about 5° retarded. On the brief drive I went on it seemed somewhat improved, but I didn't disconnect the battery to reset the ECU, and I know I should have.

Setting timing was easy to do, but would have been a real pain in the arse if I hadn't used the thin wooden end of a 3" cotton tipped applicator to mark both the notch on the pulley and the 16°BTDC mark with white paint. That makes it super-easy to see. Just align your two white marks and the timing is set. If you use glow-in-the-dark paint it will be even more cool!

I had worried that the CAS would "walk" when I tightened it down (as lots of distributors are prone to do) but fortunately it stayed true. The sole problem I had to overcome was that the battery cable on my timing light was just inches shy of allowing the timing-light to be aimed straight at the mark. Don't waste time trying to rig a longer cable, like some people MIGHT ( ) have done. Just pull your other car('s battery) up to your timing-light, yo?

[tigerdog]

Don't waste time trying to rig a longer cable, like some people MIGHT ( ) have done. Just pull your other car('s battery) up to your timing-light, yo?

I hooked my timing light to my battery charger to solve this problem.

[DeeAitch]

Not sure if this is really the right place to post this but here goes.
A few weeks ago I was getting a bit of misfire under load - also some pinking. So I checked the base timing and sure enough it was about 2 degs out so I reset it and hey presto business as usual
Came out of work the other day and it fired up all lumpy .WTF now says I.
Still, it drove but absolutely no power - as soon as I touched the throttle it was as if it was going backwards. Slight overheating as well so I feared the worst. Still I managed to limp home, stopping 3 times on the way to let her cool down.
Decided to check the base timing first and it was about 2 Degs ATDC Maybe I didn't tighten the thing up OK but no, the clamp bolt was tight. Tried to adjust it but the CAS would not rotate far enough.
Luckily I have a spare CAS so decided to just swap it over. Pulled the old CAS and all the drive dog, spring, drive pin etc fell off in my hands
I'll post a pic of the bits later but how it held up enough to get me home I'll never know.
BTW this was a brand new CAS fitted around 5 years ago when the HAS failed.

[Enright]

Like this?

[DeeAitch]

Like this?

Yep
Must visit LEC more often

[trig]

Can any one give me some basic easy to understand pointers on how to set base timing.... as I have never set timing before or used a strobe light
I have read the very good write up on the Wiki just need some guidance on using the strobe

I have connected up the strobe light but I'm unsure what the dial on the gun does, the dial turns from 0-60, should this be set at the 16 on the gun ? this is the timing light I have http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_165557

Also what position should I mark with white pen on the plastic engine cover..its fins are marked from 0....10....20
Should I mark this fin? .......................................................................................................^

If anyone has any pics of the correct mark that would be great

[rip]

If anyone has any pics of the correct mark that would be great

Sorry, but no.
However, you've found all you need & are 90% of the way there.
The 0, 10, 20 marks are degrees before TDC & the smaller marks in between are set 2 degrees apart. The timing mark itself is a little nick in the pulley which these marks surround. I would prefer this to be a bit bigger, but I can still see it.
With the wheel on the back of the timing light set to zero, you will be aiming for the mark to appear next to the line representing 16.

The wheel on the light simulates timing advance. I initially doubted its accuracy, but have found it is ok. If you wind this up woth the light on while watching the timing mark, you will see it move towards zero. With the timing set to 16btdc & the dial set this to 16, the timing mark should appear to be 'stopped' against zero (tdc).

[trig]

Thanks rip,

I'll give it a go today,,I only have the wife to assist so wish me luck

The other problem how important is it for the fans to cycle on and off before carrying out this procedure as I'm not sure if the fans are working,,, since installing a new engine I've not been able to hit the open road because of the back firing and have not heard the fans kick in while the car has been running in the garage....the Temp gauge in the Elan is awful...Fans were fine before install so assume there OK

[GeoffSmith]

The other problem how important is it for the fans to cycle on and off before carrying out this procedure as I'm not sure if the fans are working....

The reason to let the fans kick in is to make sure that the engine is up to temperature. Of course, if you have an ElanScan lead, you can check the temperature (and engine speed etc.) in real time!

[saska]

If anyone has any pics of the correct mark that would be great :D

trig, may be too late but took this today. With the Halford's timing light I believe rip is correct:
1. If the Halford light is set to 0 then the 2 red marks one on pulley - one on timing marks should line up under the light.
2. If the Halford light is set to 16° BTDC then the red mark on the pulley should align with the white 0° on timing marks when the light flashes.

[trig]

If anyone has any pics of the correct mark that would be great

trig, may be too late but took this today. With the Halford's timing light I believe rip is correct:
1. If the Halford light is set to 0 then the 2 red marks one on pulley - one on timing marks should line up under the light.
2. If the Halford light is set to 16° BTDC then the red mark on the pulley should align with the white 0° on timing marks when the light flashes.

Thanks Saska,
that confirms what I have been doing today is correct...just wish it worked
I have lined up the marks to 16 BTDC as above with the timing gun and then set the dial all good but as soon as I remove the paper clip
then re-check its out by about 2 ....repeated the process same result...tried to drive the car up the back lane and its back firing again


Geoff, I defo need to look into ElanScan at same stage....I did the paper clip check for fault codes but there are none just flashing 12
Found out the fans are working after turning the engine off they came on with the water pump at least they work

I will take my back firing problem over to the back firing thread so as not soil this one

[Rusty Wishbone]

This is an excellent thread for someone new to the Elan - like me. A quick question, though. Can't I avoid all that mucking about with timing lights and looking at the wrong timing mark by using the dwell setting on my multimeter? I can also use the multimeter as an external revcounter.

[Brit-Car-Nut]

Dwell is the time the points remain open vs closed. It basically measures the saturation of the coil in an older, points fired ignition. Electronic firing will give all sorts of readings as the electronic ignition can fire multiple times during the dwell period. The only way to check the ignition timing is to set the car in service mode - this takes the computer out of the equation - and then match up the crank mark with the mark on the cover. If it is way off, you might want to check that the marks are accurate bu using a plastic straw in Cylinder 1's spark plug hole and carefully rotate the engine in the normal running rotational direction and watch as the straw rises and stop as it just starts to go back down. Use a long enough straw so it doesn't drop into the cylinder while the piston goes to bottom dead center.

When you have verified you have caught the piston at full height - Top Dead Center - check your marks. The pully mark should be at the zero mark on the cover. If not, something is out of alignment with the cover or the mark on the crank is wrong. Make sure you are using cylinder #1.

If you are certain you are measuring cylinder #1 and it really is at TDC, carefully mark the pulley to reflect the zero mark on the cover.

Set the car in service mode and restart it. Recheck the base timing. It should be correct or at least close. Set it to the spec and turn off the engine. Remove the jumper clip and go into normal running mode and you will see the timing is now different and probably fluctuating as the computer makes adjustments to overcome things like spark knock, A/C running, temperature issues just to name a few.

The running timing will never be the value of the base timing as set in service mode.

[RayD]

John,

Ray

[Rusty Wishbone]

Thank you. I'd better go and get myself a timing light, then.

[hhisiii]

I just set my timing after replacing the CAS and blanking plug oil seals (the blanking plug seal was well past seeping) Smoothed the occasional miss at idle right on out and she's purring like a kitten now. Took it out for a 'test' spin and everything felt beautiful.