Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

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Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby muley » Wed 29.05.2019, 08:45

Help!

Elaner (not me) is overseas

He turns on if ignition moves key to start and . ..nothing.

Lights don't dim.

Any ideas? I wonder if an alarm/immobiliser has decided to work / duff relay / blown fuse

All other electrics work.
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Re: Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby dapinky » Wed 29.05.2019, 09:00

Bump start?
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Re: Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby Rambo » Wed 29.05.2019, 09:03

Yes. Try Dave's bump start. But I also think immobiliser and or fob ?
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Re: Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby maz_r » Wed 29.05.2019, 09:05

If not immobiliser, most likely is maxi-fuse D5 (on the tunnel behind the dash) or the start relay (under the binnacle cover). I’d try swapping the relay temporarily with another one to check it. Make sure they are the same!

After that, it’s down to bad connections to the positive and negative posts which could be tricky to find...

You don’t say LHD or RHD, not that it would affect initial diagnosis
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Re: Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby muley » Wed 29.05.2019, 09:39

Thanks guys. Very helpful ~ I'll pass the info on

Rgds

Jim
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Re: Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby Saltire » Wed 29.05.2019, 10:15

Several thoughts, Jim:

    - can your man hear the fuel pump priming when he turns on the ignition?
    - can he hear the starter relay clicking when he turns the key to the start position?
    - is there any sound at all from the starter motor?
If No to 1 and/or 2, I would suspect immobiliser not releasing properly (or fuse/relay as already discussed). In this case, a bump start is unlikely to work.

If Yes to 3, the starter could be failing to engage properly, in which case a bump start will work.

Good luck!
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Re: Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby muley » Wed 29.05.2019, 10:37

Hi everyone.

Elaner had a 'good rummage' in the passenger footwell and the problem disappeared.

Thank you so much for your help.

Kind regards


Jim
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Re: Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby lotusflasherman » Wed 29.05.2019, 22:26

That's got me confused Jim, don't remember anything to do with starting circuits being down there.
The Crank position of the Ignition Switch pulls in the Start Relay which is behind the instruments accessed through the top hatch. (Relay J shown on MJ Page 11 is lower right relay for RHD, upper left for LHD). Start Relay connects 50A D5 fuse direct to Starter Solenoid as maz_r said earlier. When the Start Relay is pulled in it cuts feed to the Ignition Relay to switch off unnecessary load such as Window Lift Motors, Heater Blower, Cig' Lighter etc. Easy way to check Start Relay is turn Heater Blower on and you should hear it stop when Ignition Switch in Crank position pulls in Start Relay. If Blower continues to run problem is likely to be the Start Relay not pulling in. If Blower stops, Start Relay is pulling in so likely to be Starter Motor Solenoid playing up.

Glad the problem has disappeared but thought it worth posting because I suspect it might reappear ...
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Re: Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby Simon_P » Wed 29.05.2019, 23:05

Could also be the starter solenoid.
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Re: Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby peteoddcar » Sat 01.06.2019, 07:16

If it’s got an immobilising alarm or separate immobiliser it’s probably mounted in the ECU area and this is the most likely cause. Most immobiliser relays are current rated too low for the solenoid current, they will generally put up with it for some years as it’s an intermittent use.
Also the type with the fob transponder on the key ring and receiver coil hidden under the lock housing cause issues.
More info would help
But you’re in the right place to get answers
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Re: Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby daveiow » Sun 02.06.2019, 15:01

Hello all. I am-was that man...!
First of all thank you all for the suggestions and great support especially Jim.
The car is a 91 SE and it still has the original Lotus alarm. I do not use the key fob as it has become a bit temperamental so lock up with the key in the door.
Intermittent symptoms are-
Unlock then key in the ignition, turn the key, fuel pump activates and all dash lights come on. Turn key to activate starter and nothing, dash lights do not dim, solonoid does not click.
Repeated turn key and nothing then just when despair starts to set in she fires up.
The “rummaging” Jim describes in the footwell was just coincidence, I thought it had helped but symptoms persist.
Car will start with a bump start and run.
We have just got back and I will try to diagnose the problem with your help.
Thanks again
David
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Re: Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby GeoffSmith » Sun 02.06.2019, 15:25

lotusflasherman wrote:… When the Start Relay is pulled in it cuts feed to the Ignition Relay to switch off unnecessary load such as Window Lift Motors, Heater Blower, Cig' Lighter etc. Easy way to check Start Relay is turn Heater Blower on and you should hear it stop when Ignition Switch in Crank position pulls in Start Relay. If Blower continues to run problem is likely to be the Start Relay not pulling in. If Blower stops, Start Relay is pulling in so likely to be Starter Motor Solenoid playing up. …


THIS!

An alternative to the blower motor is to look at the lights on your window switches. Light also indicates that fuse D5 is intact.

If the start relay is not pulling in, you could try swapping the Start and Start Dropout relays which are located at positions H and J. If it's not the relay then it could be the ignition switch or wiring of course.
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Re: Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby peteoddcar » Sun 02.06.2019, 16:24

Yes we need the next answer. Blower motor cur out will tell us where to go next. ( ignition accessory load dump for crank )
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Re: Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby daveiow » Sun 02.06.2019, 20:27

Well you can guess what’s happening now :?
After about a 1000 miles in 4 days of somewhat stressful motoring she is starting every turn of the key!
I will report back as soon as the inevitable happens again.
David
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Re: Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby peteoddcar » Mon 03.06.2019, 07:13

Well that’s good news.No breakdowns.
Has the car had a longish period of no use recently?
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Re: Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby daveiow » Mon 03.06.2019, 12:08

Hi peteoddcar
No she didn’t let us down on the road :D
Somewhat stressful wondering if she would start on Eurotunnel though :?
Not much use over the winter, started once a month and a couple of short trips only.
I will do the heater blower and window switch light test when she plays up again and report back
David
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Re: Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby david.bradley » Tue 19.05.2020, 21:16

Hi
Could I possibly follow up on this post. I have exactly the same symptoms.
Car is a 1992 SE RHD - correct me if I'm wrong, but no immobiliser, just a key and no fob.
If you turn the key, there's a click from a relay in binnacle, but nothing else. No sound at all from starter.
I've tried the blower on, and it slows but does not stop.
Dash lights do not dim.
Very occasionally it fires up the starter, but it's getting more and more rare. Now virtually never.
I fancy changing the H & J relays in the binnacle and checking/cleaning the no5 Maxi-fuse.
Can anyone please tell me the spec I need for the relays?. I guess they are fairly highly rated?, but I don't know what to look for.
The other thing is where is the fuse. I've looked at the manual and it shows it behind the centre dash - but do I need to take all the radio/dash etc out?
Any other fuses/relays that anyone can think of please?

Thanks
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Re: Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby dapinky » Tue 19.05.2020, 21:52

It sounds to me that it is more likely to be a bad ignition switch.....

..... I'd be removing the cowling and shorting out the connections on the back of the switch to see if that spins the motor.
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Re: Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby peteoddcar » Tue 19.05.2020, 22:57

Hi
As a newbie to the M100 you may not be aware the top of the binnacle area has an inspection panel just undo the two screws and you’ll see the relays. The Maxi fuses in the start Circuit are unlikely to be the culprit in my our experience,
I’d change just the starter it’s a DIN relay 5 pin available pretty much any spares shop. Take the old one as a pattern.
Could be ignition switch as Dave says, Vauxhall part available on EBay SJ Sports etc if you don’t want Lotus dealer prices.
Check the switch inline connect to the loom is good.
Hope that helps
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Re: Stranded Elaner, starter motor won't spin

Postby Rambo » Wed 20.05.2020, 08:25

Do you hear the fuel pump prime when you turn the ignition key. ? You don't mention it

Also, what voltage is your battery reading ? (at rest and under load - if you can get the engine running)
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