help with misfire please

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help with misfire please

Postby cshtelecaster » Wed 01.08.2018, 22:01

please can anyone suggest anything ..Im a relatively new member, got my elan around 5 weeks ago, the very first time I turned the key it sounded terrible, drove it running very rough then decided to rev it when pulling away and suddenly it seemed to clear , it then ran fantastic for a week before developing the same issue. did check sparks, seemed low on no1, swapped plugs one and 2 over. started engine ,fantastic,drove about 3 miles, accelerated quickly and problem returned..have now replaced all plugs,leads, and both coil packs,,start engine ad will idle fine when warm .if I press the accelerator its rough from idle to about 2500 rpm,,,over that seems to be ok,, just not sure what to check ,or if to give to garage,,,,on another note does anyone know of a mechanic or garage near Gloucester ...getting sad because I really want to enjoy my elan, those few times it ran well were great and put a big smile on my face,,

chris
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Re: help with misfire please

Postby ElanBRG » Wed 01.08.2018, 22:26

cshtelecaster wrote:please can anyone suggest anything ..Im a relatively new member, got my elan around 5 weeks ago, the very first time I turned the key it sounded terrible, drove it running very rough then decided to rev it when pulling away and suddenly it seemed to clear , it then ran fantastic for a week before developing the same issue. did check sparks, seemed low on no1, swapped plugs one and 2 over. started engine ,fantastic,drove about 3 miles, accelerated quickly and problem returned..have now replaced all plugs,leads, and both coil packs,,start engine ad will idle fine when warm .if I press the accelerator its rough from idle to about 2500 rpm,,,over that seems to be ok,, just not sure what to check ,or if to give to garage,,,,on another note does anyone know of a mechanic or garage near Gloucester ...getting sad because I really want to enjoy my elan, those few times it ran well were great and put a big smile on my face,,

chris


Would be a good idea to set up elan scan on your laptop to check codes. Might be something there that pinpoints it before you keep replacing parts as a shots in the dark.
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Re: help with misfire please

Postby Giniw » Wed 01.08.2018, 22:40

:agree:
If you don't have a cable for an ElanScan session yet you should read the fault codes with a paper clip — see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2SjckSxjOk
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Re: help with misfire please

Postby Simon_P » Wed 01.08.2018, 22:53

First two things to before you do anything are checking the base timing and the idle.

See the wiki
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Re: help with misfire please

Postby ElanBRG » Thu 02.08.2018, 07:23

Simon_P wrote:First two things to before you do anything are checking the base timing and the idle.

See the wiki


If the base timing and idle were set incorrectly, that wouldn't result in an intermittent issue where the car runs great for a week and then bad again. It would just be bad all the time.

Something else is going on.
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Re: help with misfire please

Postby Saltire » Thu 02.08.2018, 07:42

Hi Chris

First of all, welcome to LEC. The Elan is a great car when it’s sorted, and yours will be too!

Re garages, it depends what “near to Gloucester” means. I’m about 40 minutes from Gloucester down the A417, and I have an excellent local garage which maintains two Elans including mine. North of you, Paul Matty in Bromsgrove has long experience of Lotus - I’ve not used him myself, but I know Fredjohn has; you could PM him and ask about his experiences. The general rule, though, is that to find a good garage, you need to be prepared to travel. One LEC member lives in Swindon and takes the Elan to a specialist in Bournemouth, for example.

Re the rough running, the first thing I would do is to get hold of a copy of the Elan diagnostic program, Elanscan, which you can find here.

Also see this YouTube link.

Elanscan tells you what’s going on in detail, by reading the ECU fault codes, so you can pinpoint the problem. You’ll also need an adapter cable, to connect a laptop to the diagnostic socket in the car. Geoff Smith,on this forum, sells them, and lives locally, but I don’t know if he has any at present. Alternatively, another member would loan you one temporarily.

Others will probably be along shortly with specific technical solutions, but that’s a start.

Finally, make a date to come along to the Lotus gathering at Castle Combe (just down the road from you) next May Bank holiday. We had 30 M100 Elans this year, and all the technical advice you could ever want!
Jonathan

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Re: help with misfire please

Postby Simon_P » Thu 02.08.2018, 08:49

ElanBRG wrote:
Simon_P wrote:First two things to before you do anything are checking the base timing and the idle.

See the wiki


If the base timing and idle were set incorrectly, that wouldn't result in an intermittent issue where the car runs great for a week and then bad again. It would just be bad all the time.

Something else is going on.


The car is new to him so it would be prudent to ensure that they are correct first. Plus it is free.
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Re: help with misfire please

Postby ElanBRG » Thu 02.08.2018, 16:47

Simon_P wrote:
ElanBRG wrote:
Simon_P wrote:First two things to before you do anything are checking the base timing and the idle.

See the wiki


If the base timing and idle were set incorrectly, that wouldn't result in an intermittent issue where the car runs great for a week and then bad again. It would just be bad all the time.

Something else is going on.


The car is new to him so it would be prudent to ensure that they are correct first. Plus it is free.


You can add a ton of other "prudent" items to that to-do list for a new Elan owner but they won't solve his immediate issue! That prudent list is surprisingly huge for such a little car...
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Re: help with misfire please

Postby Simon_P » Thu 02.08.2018, 18:46

Well I did add some reasons why both ignition timing and an air leak could cause the symptoms described. But I deleted them shortly after posting as I have no desire to argue with you.
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Re: help with misfire please

Postby GeoffSmith » Thu 02.08.2018, 18:54

Simon_P wrote:First two things to before you do anything are checking the base timing and the idle.

:agree:
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Re: help with misfire please

Postby Simon_P » Sun 05.08.2018, 18:01

I just described the symptoms to someone who knows what they are talking about. He said most likely an air leak and to look for a split hose or dodgy connection which might make it intermittent.
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Re: help with misfire please

Postby Tuga2112 » Mon 06.08.2018, 16:17

GeoffSmith wrote:
Simon_P wrote:First two things to before you do anything are checking the base timing and the idle.

:agree:

agree with geoff and simon.

i had something of a similar nature after changing the belt. because the belt skipped a tooth.

but a easier check is the vaccum leak one.
inducing a leak shoudl change iddle speed, if it doesnt means something wrong in that system.

but then again.. i have 2 elans that are not running smooth either so.. my advice/opinions are probably worth dismissing :bonk:
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98 Celica SR

too many projects. not enough sunny days :(
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Re: help with misfire please

Postby cshtelecaster » Tue 14.08.2018, 20:48

thank you for all your help and suggestions. on further investigation it appears to be a problem affecting cylinders 2 and 4 , also when listening with screwdriver the ticking on those injectors is very weak. when engine is running removing plug leads from 2 and 4 makes no difference, the car has done 118 000 miles, I suspect the , or one of the , injectors has failed on 2 or 4 ,,please could anyone advise me if the injectors are the same on 1990 turbo cars as on those after that date ,and where is best to source them if this is the problem...I will get elan scan up and running but just short of time right now..thanks for all your help..
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Re: help with misfire please

Postby GeoffSmith » Tue 14.08.2018, 21:35

One bad injector can pull them both down, so try disconnecting one (then the other) then see if there is any difference when you remove the other plug lead. If not then either they're both U/S or the ECU outputs are U/S.
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Re: help with misfire please

Postby John_W » Tue 14.08.2018, 21:38

cshtelecaster,
The fact that it’s 2&4 suggests a fuel injection problem. Either the injector itself or something in the drive circuit as 2&4 are paired and 1&3.

Have a look at Neil Hayes “High CO / Poor Hot Starting” thread, especially THIS post from Geoff Smith. Only one injector might be faulty and Geoff’s post will help you find which one is the culprit.

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Re: help with misfire please

Postby cshtelecaster » Wed 15.08.2018, 23:27

just wondering if the injectors are the same on 1990 elan as the 91 to 92 . and if theyre the same as the injectors on the S2 elan .seems they can be purchased from usa if I know which ones to get. maybe they changed 91 on because of cats on ehaust, thinking to change all 4 and keep old ones for spares,

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Re: help with misfire please

Postby Fredjohn » Wed 15.08.2018, 23:30

The injectors are the same on all turbo models.

The n/a has different ones and these are often sold on ebay as if for a turbo, so beware.
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Re: help with misfire please

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Thu 16.08.2018, 00:06

An example of John's comment:

Rock Auto's listing for 1991 Isuzu Impulse Turbo:
STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS FJ559 is a proper match while TOMCO, INC. 15542 is NOT for the Turbo.

I know it is a pain but you could swap the injectors even # for odd # and see if the fault follows.

The injectors listed on eBay US are down to the last set.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/191637275013
$169.00 + postage

Some people find fault with them, while others enjoy the drive after replacement.

I swapped a set into a wreck I bought for parts and it ran fine while we were testing it. The old ones had physically exploded (water in the injectors and freezing temps for several years are not a good combination) so I installed new ones. We have run it up and down the block (no license tags on the car) numerous times to verify the Turbo functions and the gearbox shifted cleanly in all gears. It still starts when we turn on the battery and hit the switch.

I was more amazed the brakes actually stopped the car with no extra maintenance. Getting to WOT turbo speed in 3rd gear can be exciting when you run out of road...
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Re: help with misfire please

Postby cshtelecaster » Wed 05.09.2018, 20:11

Big Thanks for everyones advice..I did purchace the last set of injectors from USA, well their last set.All new, ect, 6 hole spray, took about 16 days to arrive £188 inc postage and contribution to our gov drinks cabinet...they were fitted today , great result, fast smooth, best its been,,fantastic….now will get old injectors cleaned and tested if any are ok theyre spares ,with the coil packs and leads,,,


Chris :D :D
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