what shocks/coilovers.....avo/gaz

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Re: what shocks/coilovers.....avo/gaz

Postby lotusflasherman » Thu 18.05.2017, 15:22

clemo wrote:Question ... why would anyone fit just 2 ?


Answer ... Front work much harder than the rear, because engine is in the front and centre of balance is just behind the front jacking point so M100 is very forward biased.
Might have got MOT advisory, or even Fail, on 'front damper leaking' so either took the opportunity to upgrade, or might have been easier to get hold of than OE's.

The damping characteristic of the front will be completely different to the rear. There is a theoretical ideal Critical Damping Co-efficient related to spring frequency and weight, and that will be for each axle.
It is quite feasible to consider each axle as a separate entity.
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Re: what shocks/coilovers.....avo/gaz

Postby lotusflasherman » Thu 18.05.2017, 15:36

John_W wrote:Come on, Clemo - it's an excuse to buy spring compressors. Never turn down an opportunity to buy new tools. :poke:
John :mrgreen:


Be careful which ones you buy... trust Lotus to wind their spring helix the opposite way to most manufacturers ... :banghead:

The cast ones can be reground or the ones with two claws Spring-Compressor-Clamps can be bashed into shape with a big hammer ... the latter is easier.. :lol:
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Re: what shocks/coilovers.....avo/gaz

Postby dapinky » Thu 18.05.2017, 15:53

Phil,

Whilst it may well make a difference on some cast 'hook' tools, I have never encountered a problem.

Now, whether it is because my compressors are not made by Fisher-Price (or their Chinese equivalent) I can't say.

But the thing I have noticed on the elan is that the spring is fitted under far less tension on the suspension unit (read 'shock absorber') than on many other cars (which would be heavier!), so as long as care is taken, even the 'wrong' clamps which have a smaller contact area on the spring winding should be okay......

(This Health & Safety advice was brought to you in association with 'I'm-a-clumsy-twat-who-can-I-sue?' no win, no fee, claim services :lol: )
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Re: what shocks/coilovers.....avo/gaz

Postby lotusflasherman » Thu 18.05.2017, 18:53

Dave,
My cast ones are from the early 70's when the Chinese were just growing rice ... :lol:
Put a Capri 2l V4 in a Ford 100E Anglia and needed to take the MacPherson struts to Spax for uprated inserts so got a pair for each side and they worked great on Ford springs - clamp springs on the car before jacking up and it's easy.
When I wanted to put Spax Gas on my Eclat I found the helix angle was opposite and they didn't work - or fit, as it's got progressive springs so had to buy the claw ones to get between the coils, around early 90's so Sykes Pickavant and paid 'top dollar'. They were straight so sat at an angle on the helix but would 'walk round' allowing the spring to go banana shaped until I 'modified' them... At least cheap Chinese ones have driven prices down ... :-D
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Re: what shocks/coilovers.....avo/gaz

Postby Steve A » Thu 18.05.2017, 22:09

clemo wrote:Spoken to AVO this morning .
They will do a refurb at the price of £10 - £40 depending on work requirement . Though they do not do the cosmetic side of things .
I can purchase the rears at £110 each .

FYI all shocks are £110 each regardless of corner

5 to 10 day turn around on refurbishment
New M100 shocks in stock

He does not get involved in springs and mine need to be removed . Mine are off the car with spring still attached

IS the cable tie method of removal likely to take my head off ?

Thanks all .


What shocks do AVO specify for the M100 they do several versions but don't seem to say which your car should have :? :poke:
With over 25 years of corrosion my spring would surely be weaker, what are the choices :?
"If everything is under control, you are going too slow."
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Re: what shocks/coilovers.....avo/gaz

Postby clemo » Fri 19.05.2017, 10:12

Steve
Avo don't get involved with springs
Only shocks . Which is a slight oversight on their behalf i would say as other such as Gaz supply both ( SW lotus) which keeps the new purchase quite simple .

I did ask about group buy but whilst the do sell direct they put most of their stock through PNE as the sale outlet so declined .

I did learn that the fronts have been redesigned 5mm lower on the newer edition .It is a specific phone call ( to keep traffic going through PNE) to get the Elan spec . The chap was most helpful to talk to at Avo .
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Re: what shocks/coilovers.....avo/gaz

Postby bbjon » Mon 22.05.2017, 14:26

I have a new set of avo dampers on mine - they seem to be very well put together. I had protech shocks on my old Excel I couldn't recommend them the adjusters fell apart in less than 100 miles.

Springs were trickier - I wanted to use new standard Lotus ones the factory did manage to find a set of fronts but they don't seem to have any matching rears left in the end I went for a set of pattern ones from SJ. So far all seems well in the ride / handling department (the car dose look likes it's on stilts though with the ride height set to spec!)
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Re: what shocks/coilovers.....avo/gaz

Postby clemo » Mon 22.05.2017, 21:11

bbjon wrote:I have a new set of avo dampers on mine - they seem to be very well put together. I had protech shocks on my old Excel I couldn't recommend them the adjusters fell apart in less than 100 miles.

Springs were trickier - I wanted to use new standard Lotus ones the factory did manage to find a set of fronts but they don't seem to have any matching rears left in the end I went for a set of pattern ones from SJ. So far all seems well in the ride / handling department (the car dose look likes it's on stilts though with the ride height set to spec!)


Hi bbjon ,
how did you set the car up ?
As in - there is an instructions kit that says how to set up .

Just that this morning whist talking to john at SJ's he said we just say " take to old one out - pump it up and down a few times - copy that plus 1 click / turn " and then where out of stock of their version of adjustable suspension
Avo didn't really shed much light on it either .

thank you for your reply
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Re: what shocks/coilovers.....avo/gaz

Postby bbjon » Mon 22.05.2017, 21:43

To be honest Lotusbits put the suspension together when they had the so they set the ride height / geometry.

The avo units on mine have a single combined adjuster you can't alter rebound and compression individually. Essentially this means the knob is softer / stiffer.

They didn't come with a setup manual - I tend to try to get the softest damper setting that will control the spring so I set them as soft as possible and then progressively increase the rate until the car stops pattering or nodding its head (don't know the real term!).

I can understand what the chap at SJ meant - get the new dampers to feel more or less the same as the old ones and then set them a click stiffer to account for wear sounds reasonable way of getting the shocks similar to original.

Truth is I would have been happiest if I'd been able to get standard original shocks and springs!
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Re: what shocks/coilovers.....avo/gaz

Postby clemo » Tue 23.05.2017, 10:15

bbjon wrote:
Truth is I would have been happiest if I'd been able to get standard original shocks and springs!


Interesting . Care to expand on that ?

Anyone else feel this way ?
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Re: what shocks/coilovers.....avo/gaz

Postby bbjon » Tue 23.05.2017, 10:52

I think I'd always rather go with the standard setup if possible.
Lotus knew what they were doing when they developed the spring and damper rates - certainly far better than I do!

I guess it's personal preference I'm not saying that the original settings can't be improved upon or tweaked to your own taste just that I think Lotus probably did a better job than I personally can manage!

On another front - I'm going to be at Castle Combe on Saturday - so if you want to take my car out for a run about your welcome to - so you can see how the car feels with new avo's and the SJ springs
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Re: what shocks/coilovers.....avo/gaz

Postby lotusflasherman » Tue 23.05.2017, 19:03

bbjon wrote:I think I'd always rather go with the standard setup if possible.
Lotus knew what they were doing when they developed the spring and damper rates - certainly far better than I do!

:agree: particularly when they did so much development work - John Miles did 80,000 miles in England & Europe sorting the ride and handling (P 123 of Mark Hughes' book) and then they did a 24 hr run at Snetterton that stopped after 22 hrs & 1860 miles (84 mph average) when the gearchange cable broke. I'm happy to bow to their judgement on best setting .. :bowdown:

I'm still running OE setup on my SE that's not yet done 53k miles so dampers are working fine (I think, I'll find out for sure on Saturday), so I haven't gone down the 'replacement damper' route yet but ....

I was involved in racing 1000cc Mini's in the '70's. My Mini was 'super lightweight' so got Spax, who were 5 miles away, to build me special dampers for the rear. Spax supplied a performance chart and advice on setting up adjustable dampers.
Been delving in my files and found the chart & my notes from a 'Team Pub Meeting' :gathering: :cheers: - Copied them below verbatim -
You may find them useful, or you may not ... :lol:
(Was a 2 car team and the other driver was also called Phil and was he that used Konis, not me...confused us at times. too!)

spax mini damper.jpg


Dampers (Notes following my visit to Spax and team discussion at The Woodman)
Normal road cars are softest on bump (being compressed by a bump) and between 2 & 5 times stiffer on rebound (extending out again) to give decent ride and stop ‘harmonic bouncing’ on springs.
Bumpy circuits require close to ‘road settings’ - Llandow, Lydden Hill , Castle Combe
Smoother circuits ratios can be lower bump/rebound ratio – Brands, Silverstone, Snetterton (couple of bumpy corners, particularly Bombhole , but generally smooth)
Single seaters run lower bump/rebound ratios than saloons – Spax guy didn’t say why.
Phil’s Koni have adjustable bump when fully in, and adjustable rebound when fully out so should have more choice - but he keeps getting ‘lost’… Dampers need to be removed from the car to adjust.
Fronts won’t be too bad with my one piece front but rears will be a pain in the arse as on Phil’s .. Takes Phil about 45 minutes to do all 4 and he’s never certain he’s set each pair the same !! .(Can’t be delegated as it’s ‘feel’ )
Spax can do some ‘specials’ for a lightweight Mini with 6 settings by an external screw so can be adjusted on the car – very useful if it rains and we are changing to wets, dampers can be softened at same time…
Spax have supplied chart for suggested performance ratios… Note that '3' looks more than halfway between 0 & 6 so 1 to 2 & 2 to 3 might create more change than 3 to 4, 4 to 5, 5 to 6… suck it and see at a test day…
Spax settings - Bump to Rebound ratios are adjusted together as shown on chart. Ratio measured with dividers are :-
At 0.3m/sec
0 1 to 4
3 1 to 5
6 1 to 4.5
At 0.2m/sec
0 1 to 4
3 1 to 4
6 1 to 4
At 0.1m/sec
0 1 to 4
3 1 to 4.5
6 1 to 4.7
Spax setup info for test day …
Bounce, wallow or lurch in corners – increase rebound damping
Car jacks itself down to bumpstops – too much rebound damping (BDA Escort man at Snetterton last year!)
Grounding, lurch onto front corner, excessive squat or dive – too little bump damping
Hard ride, sideways hop & patter (Go-kart) – too much bump damping.
Front start on 4, Rear on 2. (If dry) Wet will back off 1 click - so set Front 3 Rear 1 if wet.
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Re: what shocks/coilovers.....avo/gaz

Postby clemo » Tue 23.05.2017, 19:22

All really great input , thank you everyone who has taken the time to write .
bbjon yes i would like that very much ,as i have just also bought a full set of SJ springs so this would be a perfect insight

Thank you
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Re: what shocks/coilovers.....avo/gaz

Postby simonbuk » Mon 05.06.2017, 18:04

There's somebody selling full sets of Gaz shocks on eBay at the moment at a discount price.
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Re: what shocks/coilovers.....avo/gaz

Postby clemo » Mon 05.06.2017, 18:32

simonbuk wrote:There's somebody selling full sets of Gaz shocks on eBay at the moment at a discount price.


not seen that ...
will go look .
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Re: what shocks/coilovers.....avo/gaz

Postby dapinky » Mon 05.06.2017, 18:34

simonbuk wrote:There's somebody selling full sets of Gaz shocks on eBay at the moment at a discount price.


svs performance = jeemy on LEC.
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Re: what shocks/coilovers.....avo/gaz

Postby simonbuk » Mon 05.06.2017, 21:22

Simon - Black S2
- Black SE (aka Kermit)

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