Those running uprated front brakes......

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Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby simonbuk » Thu 12.10.2017, 10:02

What pads are you using and which do you like ? I've got front HiSpecs which according to paperwork might have Hawk pads in them. They just seem to get very hot, very quickly, and smell quite bad.

They are probably quite old so I was thinking of changing anyway.

Any recommendations ?
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby Rambo » Thu 12.10.2017, 10:51

I use EBC on both of mine. You can get different compounds dependent on your driving ie fast road, track days etc.... Their current Greenstuffs are far superior to their old type Greenstuffs which needed to be warmed up before they were efficient. Not so good for the first few braking sessions in town and more for track day sessions :burnout:

https://ebcbrakesdirect.com/Store/Featu ... Brake-pads

https://ebcbrakesdirect.com/automotive/ ... 89-97/6661
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby HJ2 » Thu 12.10.2017, 11:32

I had a set of greenstuff (the newer compound) on the rears, but i was not happy with them. After a year the pads de-bonded almost completely ! Dangerous, but perhaps exemplary?
Since upgrading to hi-specs on he front I use Mintex M1144 compound all around. A bit dusty, but performance is good from cold an in my limited experience they feel better then the green stuff.
I have been told that greenstuff compound changes regularly so perhaps my info is old now :D
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby Giniw » Thu 12.10.2017, 13:08

I have the stock brakes but as for the pads I am using EBC yellow stuff and I am quite happy with those — I read the old yellow stuff used to brake only when warm but the newer compound I have is fine when cold too.
By the way, the rims are quickly dusty, I don't really care but if you do that could be annoying (I think I remember their red stuff is their cleanest compound, but not too sure about that, it's all explained on their website)
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby roy666 » Thu 12.10.2017, 17:46

Simon - I'm 3 years into my 2-pot hi-spec brakes and just changed to 'green stuff' pads. Although, I must admit, Pete said "no need to use any of the green stuff pads, you don't need em" he was right; I can't tell the difference using these green stuff pads.. the brakes are just the same... fantastic. M
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby theelanman » Thu 12.10.2017, 18:35

I wouldn't touch anything other than the Ferodo DS2500
Personal choice
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby HJ2 » Thu 12.10.2017, 18:45

there's nothing wrong with those either :smt023
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby lotusflasherman » Fri 13.10.2017, 02:07

HJ2 wrote:I had a set of greenstuff (the newer compound) on the rears, but i was not happy with them. After a year the pads de-bonded almost completely ! Dangerous, but perhaps exemplary?
Since upgrading to hi-specs on the front I use Mintex M1144 compound all around. A bit dusty, but performance is good from cold an in my limited experience they feel better then the green stuff.
I have been told that greenstuff compound changes regularly so perhaps my info is old now :D


I run 264mm x 10mm discs on my rear hubs and use EBC DP197 (Standard Road Pads) in the Ultralite 2 calipers. Don't think the rear brakes ever work hard enough for long enough to justify Greenstuff, even round Castle Combe racetrack.
Fitted early Greenstuff (probably 15 years ago) to OE front calipers of another SE and they were absolutely dreadful cold. Developed the habit of driving 250m out of the village with my left foot on the brake to warm them up before I got to the open road and twisty bits but was still a problem on motorways when I hadn't used the brakes for some time and needed them - that slight delay before they started to bite was a heart-stopper.

My HiSpec Billet 4 calipers on the front came with what look like Redstuff pads that I thought may be a bit hard for general use so bought a set of Greenstuff (DP2143) as members were saying the 'cold problem' had gone but Redstuff are very good so Greenstuff pads are still in the box. May fit them to bed them in so I can compare through the winter.
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby Rambo » Fri 13.10.2017, 08:46

The best front pads I ever had were Pagid RS4-2's, also known as Pagid blues. They were quite expensive but worth it as, when the OEM calipers were properly fettled, they were every bit as good as the HiSpec set up
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby lotusflasherman » Fri 13.10.2017, 20:37

Rambo wrote:The best front pads I ever had were Pagid RS4-2's, also known as Pagid blues. They were quite expensive but worth it as, when the OEM calipers were properly fettled, they were every bit as good as the HiSpec set up


We'll have to debate this over a beer one day Mark ... but single pot sliding caliper can never be as good as twin pot, as on my Elan Plus 2, or triple pot as on my Eclat. Agree that when properly fettled the OEM calipers can be much better than on most M100's but they do need constant attention. Single pot sliders are a cheap and cheerful, but fundamentally BAD design that have no place on a performance car - when working really hard torque on the pins will produce resistance to sliding and one pad will work below it's full potential so never as good as a twin pot set up, and the sliding caliper has inertia that relies on disc run out to knock the outer pads away or they constantly rub. Spent this afternoon changing discs on my daughter-in-law's Astra 2.0 Turbo that has 200 bhp, 308mm discs and quite a nice car apart from those bloody single pot calipers :banghead: .. look how uneven the disc wear is ...

astra discs.jpg
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby Rambo » Fri 13.10.2017, 20:42

Phil - we don't need a beer, I totally agree with your discussion 8) And that's the main reason why we change to Hi Specs, Willwoods, AP racing etc.. set ups. Myself included (Hi Spec's)

But, I would like a beer anyway. See you in the Smoking Dog beer tent. Mine's a Wiltshire IPA :cheers:
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby Giniw » Fri 13.10.2017, 21:15

lotusflasherman wrote:look how uneven the disc wear is ...
Wow, indeed the right disc is much more worn than the left one!!! :lol:
Seriously, that's impressive indeed. Are the sliding shafts working properly or are they a bit seized?
As for the stock brakes maintenance, since I have refurbished them they seem to brake well with no maintenance at all — so far ^^
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby lotusflasherman » Fri 13.10.2017, 22:49

Giniw wrote:Wow, indeed the right disc is much more worn than the left one!!! :lol:
Seriously, that's impressive indeed. Are the sliding shafts working properly or are they a bit seized?


ha, ha ... Nothing seized, or even stiff, moves freely when pushed hard but it's such a big heavy caliper working on big heavy discs. New discs came in a box of 2 and I nearly got a hernia lifting the box.

another advantage of aftermarket twin pot calipers - aluminium ! Keeps weight down and it's unsprung weight ...
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby clemo » Sun 21.01.2018, 16:51

Are the ones you ( all ) mention above quite dusty on the 16" S2 rim ?

I am now about to be part of the Hi Spec club ... if i can find some conversion brackets.

I have emailed Hi Spec to see if they have any on the shelf .

oh and while I'm at it do the flexi hoses need to be extended ? having just bought some goodrich ones a few weeks back this would be quite annoying .

TA .
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby lotusflasherman » Mon 22.01.2018, 00:38

clemo wrote:Are the ones you ( all ) mention above quite dusty on the 16" S2 rim ?

I am now about to be part of the Hi Spec club ... if i can find some conversion brackets.

I have emailed Hi Spec to see if they have any on the shelf .

oh and while I'm at it do the flexi hoses need to be extended ? having just bought some goodrich ones a few weeks back this would be quite annoying .

TA .


Dust on 16" - can't help as I run 17" rims with 295mm discs front & 264 rear so there's a bit more clearance and airflow. I don't see must dust on the Elan wheels, particularly when compared to my Subaru that also runs 295mm discs with 17" rims.
There is a procedure to bed in new pads so they don't glaze (too hot, too quick) or wear too quickly and produce dust (haven't ever got hot enough). This may help ..bedding-in EBC brake pads

My Hispec calipers came with Goodridge hoses so I used those, so I've still got an unused set of Aeroquip hoses but I'm pretty certain the lengths are all very similar.
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby clemo » Mon 22.01.2018, 10:39

Thanks for the quick reply Phil ...

Phil is the difference between the 15' 16' 17" upgrade just the difference between the size of the conversion kit ?

I have a set of new hi spec's but no brackets . I am assuming that the actual calliper unit is the same . Is this a correct assumption ?

cheers
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby lotusflasherman » Mon 22.01.2018, 15:14

clemo wrote:Thanks for the quick reply Phil ...

Phil is the difference between the 15' 16' 17" upgrade just the difference between the size of the conversion kit ?

I have a set of new hi spec's but no brackets . I am assuming that the actual calliper unit is the same . Is this a correct assumption ?

cheers


Not sure about other fitments as I was still researching what HiSpec calipers and discs I could fit with 17" wheels when a Bob Brown conversion popped up on ebay -lotuselancentral.com/viewtopic - 2nd hand Hispec on ebay
Front & rear calipers, discs, hoses and BB rear hubs for £786 delivered was a 'no-brainer'. DVB took them off a Pacific Blue S2 and the owner was a member on here but name escapes me.. (senility?)
I was looking at MUCH more buying new HiSpec Monster front calipers and bolted discs but they were still developing a rear caliper with a mechanical handbrake when I was talking to Alex McShane in 2015, so a complete kit was too good to be true.
(Called in on HiSpec on my way to Brands Lotus weekend in 2015 and Alex & I looked at my Elan for a while as he'd not seen 17" wheels on one - always got excellent service from him after that when I phoned for seals and spacers etc)

Front calipers in BB kit are Billet 4, rears Ultralite 2. BB used re-drilled Subaru 295mm on front and moved the Elan fronts (256mm) to the rear. As mentioned on other thread - I did a bit of engineering to fit bigger but thinner discs (264x10) to rear, ventilated are unnecessary and so heavy! Rebuilt calipers with narrower separators and made spacers to get caliper in correct position. (Was pleased to find spacesaver spare still fits over them too !)

Are you only fitting HiSpec to Front? My front conversion was dead easy as it was straight off an S2. The Billet 4 caliper in the BB kit will take all discs up to 300mm but HiSpec do another Billet 4 with a radius for 300 to 325mm discs.
If you look at my first photo in the other thread you can see the Billet 4 caliper on the right. It's on the mounting bracket that you still need two of - give Alex a ring. :-D
Last edited by lotusflasherman on Mon 22.01.2018, 15:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby clemo » Mon 22.01.2018, 15:39

Gave Alex a ring he confirmed that the only difference is the conversion bracket size .
He also mentioned that there may or may not be a banjo fitting on the calliper in order to fit to the goodrich hoses i have fitted .

Mentioned the subaru disc size of 283 to fit the 16" wheels .
I ordered conversion brackets and bolts . Not sure if their price for discs and pads is better . Will research this in the next few days .
I am not a fast driver or a track user . Looking at the EBC ultimax at £18.90 per side .
I have no knowledge on the discs ? any input gratefully received .

Thank you
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby lotusflasherman » Mon 22.01.2018, 16:25

Discs are another 'no-brainer'... MTEC 964 are the 295mm Subaru discs. https://www.mtecbrakes.com/mtec964.html
£67 a pair and on the right of their webpage under 'Promotions' is a PCD Change box - £25 extra for them to supply them drilled with extra 4x100mm holes so they fit Elan.

I've lost count of the sets I've bought for the 'family fleet'. Choice of styles for the same price and dial gauge shows they run true and I can't see the point of paying more for an equivalent product..
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