Those running uprated front brakes......

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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby RonR » Wed 18.03.2020, 18:56

It's time to replace my front disks!

My car's wearing Hi-Spec calipers and 285mm Hi-Spec disks at the moment with 16" BBS S2 wheels and there's around 1mm pad overhang.

AFAIK there are 3 disc options:

1. 283mm Discs from PNM: Possibly from 2WD Sierra RS500 re-drilled? - with the mounting bracket machined down by 2mm (1mm overhang + 1mm radius reduction).
2. 285mm Discs from Hi-Spec: Unknown origin - with the mounting bracket machined down by 1mm (1mm overhang).
3. 295mm MTEC964 Discs: Subaru Forester re-drilled - with 4mm spacers between caliper and mounting bracket or new larger brackets (5mm radius increase - 1mm overhang).

I'd just like to check if anyone's fitted the 295mm discs with with Hi-Spec calipers and S2 wheels, and if there were any problems doing it.

Cheers,
Ron
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby RonR » Fri 20.03.2020, 15:11

Of course that could also be PNM calipers, 295mm discs and S2 wheels.....
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby MPx » Fri 20.03.2020, 18:26

Managed to find my upgrade spreadsheet from BobBs original kit - front and rear. Dating from May 2009, it says I have Hispec Calipers and grooved 294mm discs on the front but there's no mention of whose discs they are and I think part of the sales pitch was that "[m]any" could be used. I've had no probs at the front and they work really well. Kit cost £1362.48 which was a bit eye watering looking back! The rears long since replaced (again!) with the (Golf based?) PNM kit so that the handbrake actually works as well - although I never had the leaky seal issue that so many other Hispec kit users suffered.
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby lotusflasherman » Tue 24.03.2020, 11:03

RonR wrote:It's time to replace my front disks!

My car's wearing Hi-Spec calipers and 285mm Hi-Spec disks at the moment with 16" BBS S2 wheels and there's around 1mm pad overhang.

AFAIK there are 3 disc options:

1. 283mm Discs from PNM: Possibly from 2WD Sierra RS500 re-drilled? - with the mounting bracket machined down by 2mm (1mm overhang + 1mm radius reduction).
2. 285mm Discs from Hi-Spec: Unknown origin - with the mounting bracket machined down by 1mm (1mm overhang).
3. 295mm MTEC964 Discs: Subaru Forester re-drilled - with 4mm spacers between caliper and mounting bracket or new larger brackets (5mm radius increase - 1mm overhang).

I'd just like to check if anyone's fitted the 295mm discs with with Hi-Spec calipers and S2 wheels, and if there were any problems doing it.

Cheers,
Ron

Yes. I use MTEC964 discs (Subaru 295mm) with their 4 hole conversion, HiSpec Billet4 calipers spaced out with alloy blocks and longer setscrews. I run 17" wheels so have plenty of clearance but reckon S2 16" would be OK. I have a refurbed S2 wheel that I can use to check if you want.
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby lotusflasherman » Tue 24.03.2020, 11:35

20180415_191218 768.jpg


clearance to 17" BBS is so much I'm sure S2 wheels will be fine..
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby RonR » Wed 25.03.2020, 17:32

Thanks for that guys,

Looking at my Disc / Caliper / Wheel combination there's enough room radius-wise to move the caliper out by 4mm but the inward curve of the spokes of the S2 wheels takes them to around 3mm from the caliper:
Wheel+Caliper-285mm-disc.jpg

At the point where the caliper and wheel are nearest there's about a 25-30 degree angle on the spoke, so moving the caliper out radially by 4mm would give about 2.3mm less clearance (tan(30)*4=2.31), close enough for the larger discs to be a marginal fit.
However, if the HiSpec and MTEC disks have different offsets then all bets are off as the calipers would have to be moved in or out laterally to centre them on the discs!

I'm beginning to get one of my Headaches...... :banghead:
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby RonR » Sat 11.04.2020, 13:48

Nothing new unrder the LEC sun....

I just found this from Nige in 2006:
Nige wrote:The disc size alone is not the issue, I have 300mm discs inside my 16" wheels no problem. Unfortunately I also need calipers to stop and it's the Hi Spec billet 4 calipers when used with discs larger than 285 mm in 16" wheels that causes the problem with fit. The larger diameter disc requires the caliper to be further out towards the wheels edge and the rim end of the spokes then catches on the caliper.


It's academic for now, as MTEC have closed their doors for the duration.
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby clemo » Fri 01.05.2020, 22:18

Back to thinking of fitting again. Now about those discs.
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Problem with MTEC964 discs

Postby RonR » Fri 13.11.2020, 22:02

MTEC Brakes have now fully re-opened, and having nothing better to do I set about re-measuring my front discs and calipers.

So it seems at some time in the past my car's HiSpec discs have been replaced with PNM ones, which is why the pad overhang is 2-3mm instead of the 1mm as told to me by the previous owner. Anyway after working out that the Subaru disks would just fit, I ordered a pair of MTEC964s.

Yesterday I tried to fit them and..... No Go!

The supplied discs had 167mm diameter cut-outs on the rear of the discs to clear the hub carrier and caliper hangers, and fouled the hangers by 1-2mm (See yellow arrows).
MTEC964-rear-side.jpg

Foul1.jpg


Phil lotusflasherman sent me a photo of the old discs from his Elan and Forester for comparison (Thanks Phil!) - His MTEC964 disks have 188mm cut-outs.
Elan+Forester2.jpg


I've asked MTEC technical department to check the supplied discs against their drawings, and will ask them to check the rest of their stock once we have a solution.

So if you're about to order a pair of these discs please hold off until we can be sure that they will fit!

Cheers,
Ron
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby Neil D. » Sat 14.11.2020, 07:56

Here is some info I found in a message dated June 20005

Here is what Brian had listed
http://precisionbrakescompany.com/wilwood.html
Forged Billet Dynalite Caliper 120-6816 $118 each.
Ultralite Rotor 160-5844 $69.38 each

Nitroman quoted
Qty Part # 2 120-6816
Caliper 117.99 235.98 1 15Q-6824K
Pads 49.31 49.31 2 160-5844
Rotors 69.38 138.76 2 230-0150
Bolt kit (8pk) 6.88 13.76


Thanks
Neil
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby Fredjohn » Sat 14.11.2020, 11:41

Neil D. wrote:Here is some info I found in a message dated June 20005

Here is what Brian had listed
http://precisionbrakescompany.com/wilwood.html
Forged Billet Dynalite Caliper 120-6816 $118 each.
Ultralite Rotor 160-5844 $69.38 each

Nitroman quoted
Qty Part # 2 120-6816
Caliper 117.99 235.98 1 15Q-6824K
Pads 49.31 49.31 2 160-5844
Rotors 69.38 138.76 2 230-0150
Bolt kit (8pk) 6.88 13.76


Thanks
Neil


Neil, this is extremely useful info if you have Wilwood brakes, as I do. However RonR has PNM/Hispec, which uses a single piece disc, possibly sourced from a Subaru(?).
The Wilwood set-up uses a specially made top hat plus a standard Wilwood disc(rotor).

This makes the Wilwood easier to service as all you need is a standard Wilwood off the shelf disc and pads. BUT you need to have the special top hat in the first place in order to fit the disc.

The Wilwood conversion parts and instructions for both 15" and 16" wheels are fully detailed in Wikilec. Just the top hats and special caliper mounting brackets are n/a!
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby Simon_P » Sat 14.11.2020, 15:46

I don't think that there is an off the shelf option for the disc. I recall that there were 3 disc options, all required machining/holes. The Subaru disc that I used was the best option and required holes and opening out where you indicate to clear the carrier. There may be a newer option but I have the details if you get stuck.

There shouldn't be any pad overhang, that indicates that the ally adaptor needs machining, unless the setup doesn't fit properly, in which case you have to live with it.
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby Neil D. » Sat 14.11.2020, 18:30

Yes, I am running the Wilwood on my S2 since 2005 or 06
Just thought this old info may be useful.
Good luck with the PNM parts.

more from the past and PNM here:
viewtopic.php?t=6577
and here:
viewtopic.php?f=41&t=3277&p=38087#p38087

Neil

Fredjohn wrote:
Neil, this is extremely useful info if you have Wilwood brakes, as I do. However RonR has PNM/Hispec, which uses a single piece disc, possibly sourced from a Subaru(?).
The Wilwood set-up uses a specially made top hat plus a standard Wilwood disc(rotor).

This makes the Wilwood easier to service as all you need is a standard Wilwood off the shelf disc and pads. BUT you need to have the special top hat in the first place in order to fit the disc.

The Wilwood conversion parts and instructions for both 15" and 16" wheels are fully detailed in Wikilec. Just the top hats and special caliper mounting brackets are n/a!
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Re: Those running uprated front brakes......

Postby RonR » Tue 17.11.2020, 12:33

All info gratefully received, thanks.

Simon_P wrote:The Subaru disc that I used was the best option and required holes and opening out where you indicate to clear the carrier.

Were the discs from MTEC Simon? Phil hasn't had to have his MTEC discs opened out, and according to Brembo's diagram of the Subaru disc the opening should be 188mm - big enough to miss the carrier:
MDC1377-294x24-Subaru-sm.jpg
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