Incorrect handbrake cable

Moderators: theelanman, dapinky, Elanlover, muley, Enright, algirdas, clemo, nitroman, Specky, GeoffSmith, Nige, Dave Eds, Sy V, DaveT

Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby basher » Sat 15.02.2014, 14:40

I seem to have sourced two handbrake cables ages ago from the aftersales list which don't appear to be correct. They have the same connector on both ends, a closed flat loop (or 'd') whereas the standard cable has a bullet connection on the caliper end- the two don't seem to be compatible?

It's described on the after sales list as below although on my packaging the 'left hand' is crossed out
A100J6114S CABLE-HANDBRAKE LH CALIPER(SP) Elan.

Also described on the internet as an Elise left hand cable?

Any idea why this is the case or whether it can be used?

All help gratefully recived
User avatar
basher
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue 02.11.2010, 18:19
Location: Essex

Re: Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sat 15.02.2014, 15:11

I have seen some KIA parts that were returned to Lotus when KIA ended production that really only fit the KIA. It is possible KIA sourced an Elise cable that worked with the KIA rear caliper and they returned them when they returned the other parts but they were given x100zxxxx part number when put on the shelf by clerks that had no idea what the parts really were.

A100J6114S CABLE-HANDBRAKE LH CALIPER(SP) is in the current price book but does NOT have Elan at the end of the description. The correct part number for the Elan cable (they are NOT handed) is D100J0022F.

In the Parts Guide I got from Lotus, there is a hand written note along side the correct part number that says "Now A100J6114S" so Lotus is quite confused. Sorry...
Brit-Car-Nut
God
 
Posts: 4372
Joined: Tue 03.07.2007, 17:07
Location: Charlotte, NC USA

Re: Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby inkitin » Sat 15.02.2014, 18:39

basher wrote:I seem to have sourced two handbrake cables ages ago from the aftersales list which don't appear to be correct.

That's a coincidence, I've also just sourced two handbrake cables from the aftersales list! :-)
basher wrote:They have the same connector on both ends, a closed flat loop (or 'd') whereas the standard cable has a bullet connection on the caliper end- the two don't seem to be compatible?

Err, right I hadn't noticed that! :?
basher wrote:It's described on the after sales list as below although on my packaging the 'left hand' is crossed out
A100J6114S CABLE-HANDBRAKE LH CALIPER(SP) Elan.

The "Left Hand" hasn't been crossed out on mine. The A100J6114S is the same as mine.
basher wrote:Also described on the internet as an Elise left hand cable?

I haven't seen that, whereabouts?
basher wrote:Any idea why this is the case or whether it can be used?

I've no idea why but I may find out on Wednesday because I'm booked in at my garage to have them fitted.

Brit-Car-Nut wrote:In the Parts Guide I got from Lotus, there is a hand written note along side the correct part number that says "Now A100J6114S" so Lotus is quite confused. Sorry...

Yes, I've got that book as well which is why I went for this particular part number. :bonk:

I have a horrible feeling this isn't going to turn out well!! :(
91 SE Calypso Red

inkitin: 28/09/1949 - 23/07/2014
User avatar
inkitin
Sadly departed but never forgotten
 
Posts: 1549
Joined: Sat 27.10.2007, 14:02
Location: Manchester

Re: Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sat 15.02.2014, 18:46

Can one of you take a picture of the "wrong" cable and measure from end to end and then measure the "D" section? I will pull a correct cable and check the measurements to see if you can just cut off some of the caliper end "D" section (you would leave the crimped section to act like the ferrule.
Brit-Car-Nut
God
 
Posts: 4372
Joined: Tue 03.07.2007, 17:07
Location: Charlotte, NC USA

Re: Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby basher » Sat 15.02.2014, 21:57

Thanks for this.
My computer is steadfastly refusing to upload and post photos at the moment, I will again tomorrow.
I have measured the lengths and the old cable is 1614mm long (it may have stretched a bit over time), the new one is 1595mm.
User avatar
basher
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue 02.11.2010, 18:19
Location: Essex

Re: Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sat 15.02.2014, 22:14

basher wrote:Thanks for this.
My computer is steadfastly refusing to upload and post photos at the moment, I will again tomorrow.
I have measured the lengths and the old cable is 1614mm long (it may have stretched a bit over time), the new one is 1595mm.


Can you measure the length of the outer jacket and the total travel of the inner cable for each version? I don't think the "new" cable will be long enough or have enough travel.

The "new" cable seems to be 20mm (almost 1 inch) shorter even with the wrong fitting at the caliper end which will make it even shorter if you try to use it by trimming the slider yoke off the caliper end.

You can email me your pictures and I can post them here for you. Getting the size right can be a pain...
Brit-Car-Nut
God
 
Posts: 4372
Joined: Tue 03.07.2007, 17:07
Location: Charlotte, NC USA

Re: Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sat 15.02.2014, 23:01

Here are some pictures:
brake-cable4.jpg

brake-cable5.jpg

brake-cable1.jpg

brake-cable3.jpg


The dimensions I measured are:

Total Length: 63 3/8inches or 1609.725mm
Outer Jacket: 56 inches or 1422.4mm
Total Travel: 5 inches or 127mm

I was thinking you could cut off the section boxed in the last picture, but I think the cable will be too short if you do.
Brit-Car-Nut
God
 
Posts: 4372
Joined: Tue 03.07.2007, 17:07
Location: Charlotte, NC USA

Re: Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby inkitin » Sun 16.02.2014, 00:32

Brit-Car-Nut wrote:The dimensions I measured are:

Total Length: 63 3/8inches or 1609.725mm
Outer Jacket: 56 inches or 1422.4mm
Total Travel: 5 inches or 127mm

These are my measured dimensions of A100J6114S

Total Length: 62 3/4inches or 1595mm
Outer Jacket: 56 inches or 1422mm
Total Travel: 2 3/4 inches or 70mm

The "D" section fitting at the Handbrake end measures 1 3/4 inches or 45mm total length
The "D" section fitting at the Caliper end measures 2 1/8 inches or 55mm total length

Not looking good is it?

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by inkitin on Sun 16.02.2014, 00:46, edited 2 times in total.
91 SE Calypso Red

inkitin: 28/09/1949 - 23/07/2014
User avatar
inkitin
Sadly departed but never forgotten
 
Posts: 1549
Joined: Sat 27.10.2007, 14:02
Location: Manchester

Re: Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sun 16.02.2014, 00:41

Seems to me the "new" cables are too short to even try. The most important part is 5 inches of travel in the original cables vs 2 3/4 inches for the "new" cables.

The 2 3/8 inches at the caliper end use up the travel allowance.
Brit-Car-Nut
God
 
Posts: 4372
Joined: Tue 03.07.2007, 17:07
Location: Charlotte, NC USA

Re: Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby inkitin » Sun 16.02.2014, 00:48

Pictures added to my last post above.

This is the relevant page from the Service Parts List. Note the handwritten reference to "now A100J6114S" opposite the Handbrake Cable Assembly line 20!!

Image
91 SE Calypso Red

inkitin: 28/09/1949 - 23/07/2014
User avatar
inkitin
Sadly departed but never forgotten
 
Posts: 1549
Joined: Sat 27.10.2007, 14:02
Location: Manchester

Re: Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby basher » Sun 16.02.2014, 10:21

So just the two issues then. This isn't looking good.

Interestingly, if you look at Kelvedon Lotus's spares site, they have a rear caliper with a different handbrake cable arm which looks more like we would need to fit the new cable.
Of course, If the cable is too short then this is neither here or there...

http://www.kelsport.net/parts/product_d ... ectionID=2
User avatar
basher
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue 02.11.2010, 18:19
Location: Essex

Re: Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sun 16.02.2014, 16:11

That is an interesting caliper.
Last edited by Brit-Car-Nut on Sat 12.07.2014, 23:12, edited 1 time in total.
Brit-Car-Nut
God
 
Posts: 4372
Joined: Tue 03.07.2007, 17:07
Location: Charlotte, NC USA

Re: Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sun 16.02.2014, 16:20

Lotus struggled to find parts to fix M100s:
Last edited by Brit-Car-Nut on Sat 12.07.2014, 23:11, edited 1 time in total.
Brit-Car-Nut
God
 
Posts: 4372
Joined: Tue 03.07.2007, 17:07
Location: Charlotte, NC USA

Re: Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sun 16.02.2014, 17:07

So, it gets even more confusing as I have been searching rear calipers:

1993 Buick Regal used a LH rear Caliper Wagner part# CR119443. This looks like the caliper from Kelvedon.



The SAME car uses a RH rear Caliper Wagner part# CR119444 which looks like the standard calipers used on the M100.



This explains the notation that the LEFT caliper needs the different cable. NOTICE the arm on the first caliper starts in a different location from the arm on the second caliper!
Last edited by Brit-Car-Nut on Sat 08.09.2018, 13:18, edited 1 time in total.
Brit-Car-Nut
God
 
Posts: 4372
Joined: Tue 03.07.2007, 17:07
Location: Charlotte, NC USA

Re: Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby JohnB » Sun 16.02.2014, 19:27

basher wrote:I seem to have sourced two handbrake cables ages ago from the aftersales list which don't appear to be correct.

Just ordered them. :oops: :bonk:
inkitin wrote:That's a coincidence, I've also just sourced two handbrake cables from the aftersales list! :-)

Me too!! :oops: :(
inkitin wrote:I have a horrible feeling this isn't going to turn out well!! :(

:agree: I have the same feeling.! :oops: :oops: :roll:
Fortunately, I haven't paid for them yet. :)
Anybody going slower than me is an idiot. Anybody going faster is a maniac.Image
User avatar
JohnB
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue 05.10.2010, 16:51
Location: Leeds. West Yorkshire.

Re: Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby basher » Sun 16.02.2014, 22:27

Some questions spring to mind.
I'm assuming that the original handbrake cables are now obsolete if Lotus are selling A100J6114S instead?
I notice that SJ's are still selling what looks to be an old style one if the photo is to be believed.
A handbrake arm on the Buick Regal caliper is fairly straightforward in design, if we can get hold of one, could we fabricate it?
Even if we could make a new arm, would the length still be an issue? Could the position of the hook on the arm offset the shortage to any degree? Could you adjust more out at the lever end for example?
Presumably, If Lotus came up with this as a parts alternative at some stage they would have tested it?
User avatar
basher
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue 02.11.2010, 18:19
Location: Essex

Re: Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sun 16.02.2014, 23:36

basher wrote:Some questions spring to mind.

I'm assuming that the original handbrake cables are now obsolete if Lotus are selling A100J6114S instead?

No, the original part number D100J0022F is still active (£62.40 each) in the price guide.
Lotus had to ADD the other cable to work with the replacement calipers they were selling.


I notice that SJ's are still selling what looks to be an old style one if the photo is to be believed.

A handbrake arm on the Buick Regal caliper is fairly straightforward in design, if we can get hold of one, could we fabricate it?

Fabricating them would be OK, but the new caliper doesn't have the same body outcrop that the original caliper used to set the "off" position of the lever so it would require reverse engineering for that function.

Even if we could make a new arm, would the length still be an issue? Could the position of the hook on the arm offset the shortage to any degree? Could you adjust more out at the lever end for example?

Making new arms isn't a big deal, but it would have to be a different arm from the TWO we are looking at since the stop for the arm changed with the caliper. This is similar to the arms that were made by Algirdas for the replacement DORMAN calipers that were being used as replacements but they used the same type end as the original Lotus caliper, just a different stop.

Presumably, If Lotus came up with this as a parts alternative at some stage they would have tested it?

If you get a replacement left side (near side in the UK) caliper from Lotus, the cables you have will work with THAT caliper.
Brit-Car-Nut
God
 
Posts: 4372
Joined: Tue 03.07.2007, 17:07
Location: Charlotte, NC USA

Re: Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby inkitin » Mon 17.02.2014, 11:08

Brit-Car-Nut wrote:
basher wrote:Some questions spring to mind.

I'm assuming that the original handbrake cables are now obsolete if Lotus are selling A100J6114S instead?

No, the original part number D100J0022F is still active (£62.40 each) in the price guide.
Lotus had to ADD the other cable to work with the replacement calipers they were selling.

Just spoken to Christopher Neil's and D100J0022F's are on back order from September. Lotus don't have any at the moment.

basher wrote:I notice that SJ's are still selling what looks to be an old style one if the photo is to be believed.

The Part No is an SJ one (SJ100J0031) so it's an SJ version of the Lotus part.

Many thanks to basher for highlighting this problem and John for tracking down the convoluted answer. It's going to save me from having a fair amount of wasted garage costs!! :clap:
91 SE Calypso Red

inkitin: 28/09/1949 - 23/07/2014
User avatar
inkitin
Sadly departed but never forgotten
 
Posts: 1549
Joined: Sat 27.10.2007, 14:02
Location: Manchester

Re: Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby basher » Mon 17.02.2014, 13:00

Totally agree, well done John for the excellent detective work.

Hopefully this will save others from buying a part that you can't use...
User avatar
basher
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue 02.11.2010, 18:19
Location: Essex

Re: Incorrect handbrake cable

Postby JohnB » Mon 17.02.2014, 13:28

basher wrote:Totally agree, well done John for the excellent detective work.

Hopefully this will save others from buying a part that you can't use...

:agree: :clap:
Anybody going slower than me is an idiot. Anybody going faster is a maniac.Image
User avatar
JohnB
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue 05.10.2010, 16:51
Location: Leeds. West Yorkshire.

Next

Return to Suspension and Brakes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest