MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Moderators: theelanman, dapinky, Specky, clemo, Nige, Sy V, Dave Eds, DaveT, Elanlover, muley, Enright, algirdas, nitroman, GeoffSmith

MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Postby newtonlad » Sun 21.05.2017, 20:08

Bought the car last July. Have fitted PNM rear calipers, and larger discs on front. To be honest hand brake on original calipers was just as good as PNM's and then that was pi** poor!! I think poor rear brake performance is probably proportioning valves. My questions are !) What size brake pipe is fitted on the Elan,? 3/16th or metric? as my" friend" the tester failed the front pipes (both sides) on one inch of fixed pipe showing where the flexible joins the chassis bracket and then disappears into the arch cover/engine bay. 2) Any more info on replacing the proportioning valves, or bypassing completely as I have larger discs on the front end? ? 3) Anybody know how to correctly adjust the PNM caliper handbrake mechanism? Any help would be gratefully accepted before I commit Hari Kari!! Newton lad very grumpy at the moment. :x
newtonlad
Newbie
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun 12.02.2017, 12:58
Location: Pothcawl. Not the posh end

Re: MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Postby Steve A » Sun 21.05.2017, 21:01

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23606&hilit=adjustable+valve#p297334

I think you'll find this an excellent read 8)
"If everything is under control, you are going too slow."
User avatar
Steve A
God
 
Posts: 2530
Joined: Tue 18.09.2007, 12:44
Location: South East Essex

Re: MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Postby lotusflasherman » Mon 22.05.2017, 01:29

newtonlad wrote: 2) Any more info on replacing the proportioning valves, or bypassing completely as I have larger discs on the front end? ?

:shock: Watch out - that's going in the wrong direction!
Larger discs on the front increase the braking at the front so you'll be increasing the weight transferred to the front and lightening the rear - so have MORE need of proportioning valves, not less.
Phil

Leave me alone, I think I know what I'm doing.
Cars: Subaru Forester 2.5XTN, Eclat Riviera, brace of Pacific Blue SE's, Collapso SE, Elan+2S.... and now an Evora
User avatar
lotusflasherman
God
 
Posts: 2520
Joined: Fri 05.09.2008, 00:14
Location: Hadleigh, 15m west of Ipswich or I may be 800 miles south (Cap d'Agde)

Re: MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Postby newtonlad » Thu 01.06.2017, 20:09

Hi guys, (and girls) well it seems that I asked the wrong questions, or is it that being a new owner I asked stupid questions, anyway thanks to the two gents that did reply. Car is now off the road while I scratch my head. Brake pipe and flaring tool purchased. Managed to replace pipe on offside front. Near side front pipe disappears into engine bay behind water tank and then where does it go?? Please bare in mind that I am of pensioner age, and lying on my back in a single garage with just me, a radio and a tube of Voltarol for company. :bonk:
newtonlad
Newbie
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun 12.02.2017, 12:58
Location: Pothcawl. Not the posh end

Re: MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Postby rip » Thu 01.06.2017, 20:46

newtonlad wrote:Hi guys, (and girls) well it seems that I asked the wrong questions, or is it that being a new owner I asked stupid questions,

Neither. You asked good questions but probably got answers you did not expect.
From a conversation I remember having with my mechanic, I believe you have replaced the hardest pipe.
As usual, the trouble with a Lotus is that most things are squeezed in so tightly that you often have to remove parts which are not in the way on other cars.
1990 SE
User avatar
rip
God
 
Posts: 5893
Joined: Sun 08.04.2007, 07:48
Location: Milton Keynes, UK

Re: MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Postby newtonlad » Fri 02.06.2017, 20:01

Thanks for your reply RIP. Took the car to a local garage to have rear brakes discs machined "on the car", now disc surfaces are like new. Guess what? handbrake still crap!! Owner of garage recommended bedding in for a hundred miles or so, as Pete from PNM also suggested. But I assumed fitting the rear caliper conversion from PNM would have sorted the handbrake. Not so, and correctly adjusted now,. With no MoT could be a problem!! I will persevere, unless anybody else has any valid suggestions??? :banghead:
newtonlad
Newbie
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun 12.02.2017, 12:58
Location: Pothcawl. Not the posh end

Re: MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Postby alan e » Fri 02.06.2017, 20:41

I have PNM rear brakes on my car and they are fine it just passed the MOT with no problem, can you post a picture of your rear brake set up and have you phoned PNM for advice also the M100 can be a pig to remove all the air from the system.
[color=#FFBFFF]Black 1992 M100
2010 black evora
Austin 7 1932 box saloon
MG ZS EV
alan e
God
 
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sun 19.02.2012, 20:43
Location: worthing west sussex

Re: MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Postby lotusflasherman » Fri 02.06.2017, 23:38

newtonlad wrote:Thanks for your reply RIP. Took the car to a local garage to have rear brakes discs machined "on the car", now disc surfaces are like new. Guess what? handbrake still crap!! Owner of garage recommended bedding in for a hundred miles or so, as Pete from PNM also suggested. But I assumed fitting the rear caliper conversion from PNM would have sorted the handbrake. Not so, and correctly adjusted now,. With no MoT could be a problem!! I will persevere, unless anybody else has any valid suggestions??? :banghead:


If you fitted new rear calipers & pads and then had the discs skimmed you may have got rust into the pads... slippery stuff so cleaning them up may help and then you can bed them in properly. I machined slots in one set of OE discs that improved the rear brakes and handbrake operation - but with the hood down sounded like I had grasshoppers in the rear wheel arches... :lol:
Phil

Leave me alone, I think I know what I'm doing.
Cars: Subaru Forester 2.5XTN, Eclat Riviera, brace of Pacific Blue SE's, Collapso SE, Elan+2S.... and now an Evora
User avatar
lotusflasherman
God
 
Posts: 2520
Joined: Fri 05.09.2008, 00:14
Location: Hadleigh, 15m west of Ipswich or I may be 800 miles south (Cap d'Agde)

Re: MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Postby Simon_P » Sat 03.06.2017, 00:39

Please define "crap" in SI units. What was the reading on the machine?
Compared to the MOT requirement exactly how crap are they?
Without knowing this we are comparing squits with turds.
Simon_P
God
 
Posts: 2438
Joined: Fri 06.08.2004, 12:33
Location: Kent UK

Re: MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Postby alan e » Sat 03.06.2017, 07:49

The adjustment for the handbrake is under the centre console/armrest you will need to remove this to make any adjustment to the cables also did it pass on the rear footbrake?
Last edited by alan e on Sat 03.06.2017, 08:22, edited 1 time in total.
[color=#FFBFFF]Black 1992 M100
2010 black evora
Austin 7 1932 box saloon
MG ZS EV
alan e
God
 
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sun 19.02.2012, 20:43
Location: worthing west sussex

Re: MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Postby muley » Sat 03.06.2017, 07:51

Re:

1. IIRC I used 3/16 on mine. My local garage used a smaller pipe when they replaced a section and it didn't seem to matter too much.
Also there was a join in the pipe on the LHS just below the header tank that they connected to.
2. A local M100 owner (non-LECer) removed his proportioning valves. I'm not entirely sure this is a good idea. I need an expert to explain why..
3. The PNM rear brake upgrade was hardly any better than standard on Blacky. I wish I'd recorded the brake meter readings at the MOT station. I had problems getting the cable to pull at a good angle.


Rgds

Jim (pensioner scrabbling on cold garage floor with a tube of Anusol). ;)
LEC Turbo Nutter
1995 Palacio S2 no 507 : 1991 Aqua Blue SE Honda Jazz 1.3 2006 Ford Focus 2.0 Duratech
User avatar
muley
Moderator
 
Posts: 4485
Joined: Tue 22.04.2003, 09:07
Location: Wokingham, Berks and Waikanae Beach

Re: MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Postby Rambo » Sat 03.06.2017, 11:31

muley wrote:Jim (pensioner scrabbling on cold garage floor with a tube of Anusol). ;)


Anusol is particularly good when you make an arse of things :lol:
User avatar
Rambo
Don't push me
 
Posts: 9086
Joined: Wed 24.12.2003, 00:37
Location: Both sides of the Tweed

Re: MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Postby newtonlad » Mon 05.06.2017, 11:04

Thanks everybody for the replies. First Simon P., I was not furnished with the handbrake efficiency percentages after the MoT , but just told that the rear wheels should lock with the handbrake on, but obviously it doesn't. Having spoken to Pete at PNM have adjusted as he instructed, and bearing in mind I have new calipers, pads and discs skimmed as good as new, and as Muley suggested the brakes discs were cleaned of all rust with a rotary abrasive pad before new calipers fitted. The footbrake also failed the MoT, on the rear and I am now convinced this is a proportioning valves problem. Alan E, central console has been on and off that many times I am thinking of putting a zip on it!! Have tried all sorts of ajustments on cables for handbrake but still crap!! Cannot see any join on the front nearside brake pipe, having moved the header tank, pipe just disappears into bulkhead. I must have the same garage floor as Jim so it's not doing my pensioner piles any good either, perhaps I'll try the Anusol that he recommends!! Just to clarify, the car is a 1991 SE, I have proved that the H/B cables are free to move in the casings, not corroded, and in good condition. I have just delivered the car to a garage that prepares racing cars, so I shall see what they have to say. They were of the opinion that the MoT tester was an Ar###le!!
Tony the Voltarol man. :banghead:
newtonlad
Newbie
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun 12.02.2017, 12:58
Location: Pothcawl. Not the posh end

Re: MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Postby alan e » Mon 05.06.2017, 19:52

Having had a problem on my car bleeding the system to remove all the air which there are lots of posts about, this may still be your problem I think its will worth giving it a go.
[color=#FFBFFF]Black 1992 M100
2010 black evora
Austin 7 1932 box saloon
MG ZS EV
alan e
God
 
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sun 19.02.2012, 20:43
Location: worthing west sussex

Re: MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Postby newtonlad » Fri 30.06.2017, 12:59

Well," Newton lad" has a new MoT on the car, whoopee!!! Both proportioning valves removed and replaced with new adjustable valves and set up on a rolling road. Handbrake still shite, but just scraped through the test. Anybody ever fitted an anchor to an Elan?? So another year of trouble free (?) motoring, maybe I can put the Voltarol away for another year, or is that wishful thinking. Thanks to all who offered good advise to an old grump. :)
newtonlad
Newbie
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun 12.02.2017, 12:58
Location: Pothcawl. Not the posh end

Re: MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Postby Steve A » Fri 30.06.2017, 13:24

:D Glad your back up and running,
wouldn't it be boring if your car sailed through next time :lol:
"If everything is under control, you are going too slow."
User avatar
Steve A
God
 
Posts: 2530
Joined: Tue 18.09.2007, 12:44
Location: South East Essex

Re: MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Postby dapinky » Fri 30.06.2017, 16:05

At least with the adjustable prop valves you'll never fail another MOT on service brake efficiency (as long as the calipers are working!) - you can just dial up the pressure to the rear brakes as you arrive at the test centre, then return them to where you want them for road use afterwards :D (NOT the right way to do it, but it will get you through an arbitary test).

(do you ever 'go west' in the Elan? I'm in the process of moving house to Pembroke and looking forward to exploring the local roads)
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it

go on - click this link - you know you want to!
User avatar
dapinky
LEC Administrator
 
Posts: 10000
Joined: Sun 15.10.2006, 12:54
Location: As far west as you can get in West Wales before you become Irish (Pembroke Dock).

Re: MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Postby newtonlad » Mon 03.07.2017, 20:29

Hi Dapinky,
Thanks for the reply. So, your moving to" Little England beyond Wales". Good for you. Some lovely countryside, and villages around that area. We visit Tenby quite frequently to fight off the seagulls, :gathering: and was threatening to take the Elan now the brakes are functioning !! Would be good to meet up and talk with someone who knows more about the cars than I ever will!!
newtonlad
Newbie
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun 12.02.2017, 12:58
Location: Pothcawl. Not the posh end

Re: MoT failure, pipes, handbrake,rear brakes

Postby newtonlad » Sun 13.08.2017, 14:21

Just a short update to say that my handbrake now bedded in has vastly improved with a few hundred miles under my belt, and bleeding the bleeding brakes several times has given me a solid footbrake. Whoppee!! What's next to go wrong? Maybe I'll get the Gaz rear shocks ordered from Paul Matty sometime this year!!! :?
newtonlad
Newbie
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun 12.02.2017, 12:58
Location: Pothcawl. Not the posh end


Return to Suspension and Brakes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot and 1 guest

cron