Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby rip » Tue 13.08.2019, 09:51

MPx wrote:I don't see why anyone would have ported the wastegate (which is done to avoid boost creep) with a standard chip? Having said that, .75 boost seems too high for standard to me, I thought it was nearer .5, but one of those in the know will be along soon with the correct info no doubt.

I believe OEM boost is 0.65 bar, but the dash boost gauge is not the most accurate. It is affected greatly by poor electrical connections to/from the transducer & as under-bonnet conditions vary from car to car, I would expect boost gauge readings to do the same. I think of it as a guide only.
The ECU uses a different sensor which is more accurate & it will send this data to Elanscan.

Porting the wastegate is to balance a larger exhaust. Without doing this, the wastegate can't let enough air flow, so too much goes through the turbo, which causes boot to 'creep' to levels above which the ECU is trying to maintain. The ECU is programmed with an Overboost feature, which cuts power if boost reaches a certain level (0.96 bar I think) because damage may occur beyond this.
So I can see why you would port it with a standard chip, but there is also a reason not to:
When boost starts to creep, power increases. Overboost is more of an issue when you are pushing the engine hard at high rpm, like on a track & on colder days when the chargecooler is more effective. With normal road driving, you can enjoy more power without getting too close to Overboost. Target & Overboost levels are further apart with a standard chip than with an Everest, which makes it more possible for a driver to manage.


The OEM wastegate is the correct size until the owners (that's us) change airflow levels by fitting a bigger exhaust. :-D
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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby quiksilva » Tue 13.08.2019, 10:03

Rambo wrote:From the link I posted....

"There is not a consensus on whether to lubricate the wastegate shaft or not. One strong argument against is that, because of the extreme temperatures involved, most lubricants will degrade rapidly which may cause the wastegate to stick again and may even carbonise which can cause excessive wear. Any expert opinions would be gratefully received. [In the absence of expert opinion you'll have to make do with mine for the time being: CopaSlip type of lubricant is rated to 1100°C which should be adequate - Geoff]"


Bear in mind i'm lubricating the capsule end of the shaft not the waste gate linkage end so will be a lot cooler
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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby Dazm100 » Tue 13.08.2019, 10:05

ECU pic
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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby Dazm100 » Tue 13.08.2019, 10:06

Ecu
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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby Fredjohn » Tue 13.08.2019, 10:35

As has already been stated, the only way to check it accurately is to do 2 Elanscans: one with the chip fitted and one without. The gauge is not always sufficiently accurate to differentiate. Original SE maximum boost is 0.65 bar, with Everest chip 0.9 bar.

If you put your approx. location in your profile (in "User Control panel ...signature" tab at top right of screen) you may find someone local to you has the Elanscan lead to help out.


With regard to the Ramair filter: does this fit inside the original plastic "bucket" or elsewhere and if so where does it pull in the fresh air? If it is pulling air from inside the engine bay as opposed to the original ducted location, you are dragging in very hot air, only then to have to cool it with the intercooler. This is counter productive: you need as cold air as possible for efficient induction, not hot air.
Last edited by Fredjohn on Tue 13.08.2019, 10:40, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby Dazm100 » Tue 13.08.2019, 10:36

Is there anyone close enough to York? Who would kindly help out with the elanscan?
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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby Dazm100 » Tue 13.08.2019, 11:57

Does anyone have a spare ecu I could borrow? Just looking through the recipes my ECU looks like its had a fueling chip installed in 2009. Could explain why its boosting at 7.5.and causing conflict with the everest chip?
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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Tue 13.08.2019, 12:46

When you installed the Moates Board, you bypassed the entire original \program in the memcal. The limp home still remains.

If someone actually modified the "main board", then it should be obvious as they have heavily coated everything when the ECM was built. Any new soldering should stand out.

I would be looking for an external Master Boost Controller and extra wiring to bypass the boost control. Look around the MAP sensor area as that is what they would be trying to by-pass.

Again,decently sized pictures for others to "LOOK" at would be helpful.
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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby Dazm100 » Tue 13.08.2019, 13:11

U can see above picture?
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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby theelanman » Tue 13.08.2019, 13:12

Enright wrote:The wastegate should be controlled pneumatically by the Boost Solenoid Valve (BSV) which in turn is controlled by the ECU.
Although a solenoid can only be open or closed, the BSV is regulated by very fast switching, making it appear variable.
A manual boost controller (MBC) bypasses this, and just lets the boost pressure bleed at a fixed rate, keeping the wastegate shut for longer and allowing the boost pressure to build in an uncontrolled way.
In theory the higher the pressure, the faster it should bleed away, but it's a very agricultural solution.
I just hope that the Mass Air Pressure (MAP) sensor hasn't been also bypassed by a Fuel Cut Defender (FCD), because if it has then that's a very dangerous situation as far as your engine and turbo are concerned.

Fortunately our engines are pretty bomb-proof anyway, but they still have safety features built into the programming of the ECU to stop them from running lean and melting pistons.
In bypassing the BSV wastegate control, an MBC also bypasses the safety features and allows you to run unlimited boost - not advisable.
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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby theelanman » Tue 13.08.2019, 13:14

can you take a pic of the engine bay too?.........generally the right half where the air filter and pipework is
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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby theelanman » Tue 13.08.2019, 13:20

MBC's look like this generally
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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Tue 13.08.2019, 13:25

Dazm100 wrote:U can see above picture?

Basically, NO. Too small and too dark. By the time anyone can clean it up, the resolution is crap.

The memcal is not that important unless you take the full picture. The section you "snapped" is the limp home component and is never altered.
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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Tue 13.08.2019, 13:30

If you think the ECM has been altered, then the entire mainboard needs to be looked at - BOTH SIDES.
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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby Dazm100 » Tue 13.08.2019, 19:40

Also been told by someone this

a problem with the boost control system. It might have been intentionally disabled, if say a manual boost controller was fitted (which would also explain the 0.75bar boost), or the solenoid valve (BCFV) might have failed or blown a fuse.

Any idea how to check these?
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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby Giniw » Tue 13.08.2019, 19:53

=>
theelanman wrote:MBC's look like this generally


(MBC stands for Manual Boost Controller indeed ^^)
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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby Rambo » Tue 13.08.2019, 19:56

Just out of curiosity, where did you get the car from ? Presumably not a member of LEC ?

But if so, let us know as we might know of it's past history etc.....

If you got it off E Bay recently there have been quite a few bodged up ones :?
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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby rip » Tue 13.08.2019, 22:43

Dazm100 wrote:Does anyone have a spare ecu I could borrow? Just looking through the recipes my ECU looks like its had a fueling chip installed in 2009. Could explain why its boosting at 7.5.and causing conflict with the everest chip?

Only use the boost gauge as a rough guide. They are known to not be entirely reliable.
Fuelling is controlled by the ECU. An additional chip to run only this will not really help. Maybe it was a complete re-program?
What Brit-car-nut says remains true: The ECU's programming will be overridden by the Everest chip....
...but you could have an MBC fitted. This will take control of boost levels, but the chip will still respond by fuelling to the correct level for the conditions it detects.

You've had plenty of information thrown at you now. It must be confusing. It is important to determine what has actually been done before you can set about putting it right.
Be patient. I understand it may be a new toy but I am sure you will get to the bottom of it & get the smile back on your face.
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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby Dazm100 » Wed 14.08.2019, 11:20

Thanks for replys. Right took the car out this morning put my foot down in 2nd boosting around or near 1bar on gauge. Did this in 3rd year but only seem to be getting .75????
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Re: Everest chip fitted. But no gains?

Postby theelanman » Wed 14.08.2019, 11:21

sounds like its working...... :-D
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