Performance upgrade-chipping

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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby Scott » Wed 23.05.2012, 00:03

ok you propose hispec or wilwood instead of ap unless you do track racing. ok.. what about rear brakes though?? what choises are there?
also i have to say that my elan has 0.75 bar turbo boost so i guess if it comes to a chip i need everest.
so is everest and generally these chips safe choices? i mean the reliability.
and what do you gain as performance?not in papers. but in real.. what differences have you seen on your car? less RPM in high speed, bigger top speed, better 0-60?
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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby Ronee » Wed 23.05.2012, 10:03

i test drove a variety of different Elans with different brake set ups and i would say (in my opinion of course) The HI-Spec kit felt fantastic and i preferred it over the AP's. i have ran a hi-spec set up on my track car for the last 3yrs and i have never had any problems with it, even with 'extreme' use!

its the kit i will be upgrading too through Bobbrown thats for sure :-)
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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby Giniw » Wed 23.05.2012, 10:55

It may be a newbie question, but ... Is the Everest chip designed for the cars which have a catalyst, too?
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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby HJ2 » Wed 23.05.2012, 11:00

Yep! (you supply the correct ECU Code and Alan makes sure you will have the right chip.
Even better: If you want to convert your car from open loop to closed loop. this is possible too, without too much work to be done

All performance figures are well explained on the site. See this page (below)
http://ealanach.co.uk/elanchips/index.p ... &Itemid=14

Enjoy!
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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby Giniw » Wed 23.05.2012, 11:15

Thanks a lot! =)
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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby Giniw » Wed 23.05.2012, 12:14

HJ2 wrote:Even better: If you want to convert your car from open loop to closed loop. this is possible too, without too much work to be done
Do you mean it's easy to convert a catalyst equipped car to normal exhaust when installing a Mountain chip? (not sure of what closed loop/open loop means, even if I think it's related to the lambda sensor ... ^^)
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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby HJ2 » Wed 23.05.2012, 12:30

Uhm, no, the other way around.

the SE it standard open loop, without a Cat. You can tell because of the higher fuel consumption :oops:
You can convert the SE to closed loop with another chip and addition of an oxygen sensor (Lambda) so you'll get a significant better fuelconsumption (No Cat is needed)

I have removed the Cat on my Closed loop S2 and it passess emission tests without any problem.
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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby cyc0140 » Wed 23.05.2012, 16:50

Hi All
Would really appreciate it if some one here can advise me which model of the Vectra/Saab brake kit can
be converted to be used on the Lotus Elan. Is it a straight forward bolt on job with the right model or there's any
modification or things to watch out for. Thank you very much.
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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby Giniw » Wed 23.05.2012, 18:51

HJ2 wrote:Uhm, no, the other way around.
the SE it standard open loop, without a Cat. You can tell because of the higher fuel consumption :oops:
Well as far as I know some SE were actually fitted with a catalyst (depending on the country)
The one I might buy do have a catalyst and a lambda sensor (it seems to be a German one)

You can convert the SE to closed loop with another chip and addition of an oxygen sensor (Lambda) so you'll get a significant better fuelconsumption (No Cat is needed)
OK, thank you. I was confused because I thought the lambda sensor had something to do with the catalyst, and I believe most people prefer not to have one on their Élan. (I thought the lambda sensor had to be removed when removing the catalyst)

I have removed the Cat on my Closed loop S2 and it passess emission tests without any problem.
Interesting.
One friend told me that when removing the catalyst from a car, the engine management has to be modified, too. How did you convert it? I suppose you removed the catalyst and pre-catalyst, but what about the lambda sensor? Did you have to modify something to the engine management? Specific mountain chip for cars without a catalyst and with a lambda sensor?
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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby ESM » Wed 23.05.2012, 20:28

You can have a closed loop chip / oxygen sensor with no catalyst running a standard closed loop program without any problem.

A closed loop system is simply one where a sensor measures a value, compares it with a target and then changes an input to achieve it. In this case the engine monitors the mixture via the oxygen sensor and changes the amount of fuel delivered by the injectors to achieve the target. In an open loop car the engine is assumed to perform the same as a reference engine and it is fuelled based on the other sensors without any checks on the output (apart from the knock sensor! ). When on boost even closed loop Elans run in open loop mode as the oxygen sensor is 'narrow band' - it does not have the range to read the enriched mixture supplied on boost.

Catalyst equipped engines must have an oxygen sensor because the catalyst works properly in a relatively narrow range of engine mixtures - around a stoichiometric mixture (the perfect mixture of fuel and oxygen to burn completely with no excess of either). Cars without an oxygen sensor or catalyst (open loop) are generally slightly kept slightly rich in order to avoid any problems associated with the engine running lean should a sensor drift a bit off the target calibration or the fuel pressure fall a little lower than specified for example.

In a normally aspirated car the performance of the engine is much more influenced by the characteristics of the exhaust and it is perhaps from this that the following statement is derived:

... when removing the catalyst from a car, the engine management has to be modified, too.


If any performance gain was to be made in an NA engine after the removal of a catalyst this might well be the case as the fluid dynamics within the exhaust might be quite different (tuned systems can achieve some clever effects - cylinder scavenging for example). However, in turbocharged cars the fluid dynamics of the exhaust are dominated by the dirty great air pump (turbo) sat between the engine and the exhaust and so there is no such need. You just want a big pipe (and preferably no catalyst :wink: ) to avoid building back pressure at high flow and slowing the production of boost. This does not influence engine management programming directly - the ECU manages the engine appropriately for the manifold pressure that it detects.
Last edited by ESM on Thu 24.05.2012, 21:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby Scott » Wed 23.05.2012, 21:06

someone to answer my question above???
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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby Giniw » Wed 23.05.2012, 21:31

ESM > thanks _a lot_!! Very interesting explanation!! Image
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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby racerstev » Thu 24.05.2012, 04:53

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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby MPx » Thu 24.05.2012, 09:30

Scott wrote:ok you propose hispec or wilwood instead of ap unless you do track racing. ok.. what about rear brakes though?? what choises are there?
also i have to say that my elan has 0.75 bar turbo boost so i guess if it comes to a chip i need everest.
so is everest and generally these chips safe choices? i mean the reliability.
and what do you gain as performance?not in papers. but in real.. what differences have you seen on your car? less RPM in high speed, bigger top speed, better 0-60?


I've got Bob's HiSpec kits both front and rear. The brakes work well in combination much better stopping and much more reassuring bite than std. The rears have been a PITA with the need for reengineering by HiSpec and the handbrake is every bit as poor as it could be - but luckily I dont use it, so it only has to pass an MOT.
If you have .75 boost in a std car then I suspect either the guage is wrong or something else is (sticking wastegate?) or its already been chipped. I've got a mountain switcher chip, but having fitted it, run it on 6 (everest) 99.9% of the time so I could have saved the trouble and fitted a std everest without the switch. In my hands Elysium doesn't make much difference, and my understanding is that its more marginal on fuelling so for me not worth risking. Although I'm only rarely trying hard enough to really need Everest output, its reassuring that its there - the car is MUCH quicker to accelerate and doesn't drop off for longer - so I'm now used to that response and it feels good, dont like going back to std, and cant see the point of going in between. There is an MPG penalty (~20%), but I dont drive far enough often enough to really bother about that - and I find the power addictive so I'm not trying for max MPG. NB I've also got the 2.25 piper exhaust with pre cat eliminator and sports cat, so that also helps with everything except MOTs (it will now NOT pass emissions as is).

In my view the std car is brilliant, but it always felt like it could handle more power in terms of both go and more importantly stopping. The Everest+Exhaust upgrade has given it the a very appreciable boost and its a much more satisfying and fun drive. Its fast as in hot hatch fast - but how fast depends on what you're used to and it still wouldn't frighten any biker on a 600 or bigger sports bike. Its as fast or maybe marginally faster than my Esprit now, but my Esprit is slow if you're used to a Sport 300 Sport 350 or S4s. In my experience the skill of the driver makes much more difference than any mods to the car - I'm still regularly lapped at Combe by my mate Dave in his 1968 S2 Elan which isn't as fast on paper....but in the wet I was quicker than a 260 Cup Exige which would normally leave me for dead. The brakes are in a different league and IMO the best and most important upgrade that you can do - unless you're prepared to work as hard as Pinky does on optimising the std ones.
HTH
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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby Scott » Thu 24.05.2012, 10:51

MPx wrote:
Scott wrote:ok you propose hispec or wilwood instead of ap unless you do track racing. ok.. what about rear brakes though?? what choises are there?
also i have to say that my elan has 0.75 bar turbo boost so i guess if it comes to a chip i need everest.
so is everest and generally these chips safe choices? i mean the reliability.
and what do you gain as performance?not in papers. but in real.. what differences have you seen on your car? less RPM in high speed, bigger top speed, better 0-60?


I've got Bob's HiSpec kits both front and rear. The brakes work well in combination much better stopping and much more reassuring bite than std. The rears have been a PITA with the need for reengineering by HiSpec and the handbrake is every bit as poor as it could be - but luckily I dont use it, so it only has to pass an MOT.
If you have .75 boost in a std car then I suspect either the guage is wrong or something else is (sticking wastegate?) or its already been chipped. I've got a mountain switcher chip, but having fitted it, run it on 6 (everest) 99.9% of the time so I could have saved the trouble and fitted a std everest without the switch. In my hands Elysium doesn't make much difference, and my understanding is that its more marginal on fuelling so for me not worth risking. Although I'm only rarely trying hard enough to really need Everest output, its reassuring that its there - the car is MUCH quicker to accelerate and doesn't drop off for longer - so I'm now used to that response and it feels good, dont like going back to std, and cant see the point of going in between. There is an MPG penalty (~20%), but I dont drive far enough often enough to really bother about that - and I find the power addictive so I'm not trying for max MPG. NB I've also got the 2.25 piper exhaust with pre cat eliminator and sports cat, so that also helps with everything except MOTs (it will now NOT pass emissions as is).

In my view the std car is brilliant, but it always felt like it could handle more power in terms of both go and more importantly stopping. The Everest+Exhaust upgrade has given it the a very appreciable boost and its a much more satisfying and fun drive. Its fast as in hot hatch fast - but how fast depends on what you're used to and it still wouldn't frighten any biker on a 600 or bigger sports bike. Its as fast or maybe marginally faster than my Esprit now, but my Esprit is slow if you're used to a Sport 300 Sport 350 or S4s. In my experience the skill of the driver makes much more difference than any mods to the car - I'm still regularly lapped at Combe by my mate Dave in his 1968 S2 Elan which isn't as fast on paper....but in the wet I was quicker than a 260 Cup Exige which would normally leave me for dead. The brakes are in a different league and IMO the best and most important upgrade that you can do - unless you're prepared to work as hard as Pinky does on optimising the std ones.
HTH

There is an MPG penalty (~20%), but I dont drive far enough often enough to really bother about that - and I find the power addictive so I'm not trying for max MPG.
what do you mean by that? i cant understand the mpg. you mean fuel consumption? everest chip needs more gasoline?
you re right to brakes and sport exhaust im into it soon. that is all i wanna do to my car as upgrades. brakes - exhaust - chip and maybe new suspension. what about suspension?what do you do most of you here?
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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby HJ2 » Thu 24.05.2012, 10:57

MPG: Miles per Gallon e.g. l/100 :wink:

Mine does not consume 20% more fuel though since Everested!
As long as you drive without a lot of boost, fuel consumption stays the same. However, when you step on the pedal, Fuel consumption goes up, obviously!
You can easily control the boostlevel with your right foot... so in practice: Best of both worlds! :clap:
Last edited by HJ2 on Wed 20.06.2012, 18:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby Scott » Thu 24.05.2012, 11:07

well my elan has great fuel consumption. i wouldnt like that go away. so does anyone knows for sure what happening with gas and everest?
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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby HJ2 » Thu 24.05.2012, 11:52

There's no suchthing as a free ride ;-)
I just posted above what the benefits and consequences are (if any) :D
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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby MPx » Thu 24.05.2012, 20:53

Sorry to confuse - but you've already got there...MPG = Miles per Gallon which is the std UK and US measure of fuel economy though inevitably actually a different std for each side of the Atlantic. Europeans use litres/100Km, but hardly anyone in the UK has a feel for what those numbers mean. Fuel consumption of course varies with the way you drive and where you drive. A bigger exhaust and a mountain chip give you more potential to go fast. They do that by pushing more fuel/air flow through the engine. If you dont use the extra performance then there wont be any worse fuel consumption, but if you do use the extra performance available then obviously you will need to buy more fuel.
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Re: Performance upgrade-chipping

Postby JonT » Thu 24.05.2012, 21:35

MPx wrote:If you dont use the extra performance then there wont be any worse fuel consumption, but if you do use the extra performance available then obviously you will need to buy more fuel.

Don't entirely agree. If you've got an SE running open loop, going to a closed loop everest should make a decent improvement to cruising MPG.
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