engine conversion, ideas and advice.

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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby surfboardfiller » Wed 17.10.2012, 14:12

bratboy_y2k wrote:Just go for the 1.8 conversion, simple, straightforward, a fair chunk of extra discplacment.


Are you stroking or boring extra displacement? I can't see either being simple, strait forward or giving that much extra performance for the cost involved.
It certainly isn't going to help solve the 2 main issues Matt has which are engine sound and more gears.
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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby lotos » Wed 17.10.2012, 17:39

Every time the 1.8 comes up people say it is a bit taller and so won't fit under the hood easily. Isn't modifying a fiberglass hood a lot easier than fitting a completely different engine?
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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby surfboardfiller » Wed 17.10.2012, 17:51

Probably if you had the skills required, although you may not want to modify the 'look' of the Elan.

Fitting another engine has obvious benefits and problems, but I'm not sure of the benefits of a 1.8l over the 1.6 Lotus Turbo?
By your choice of words you are referring to an Isuzu 1.8?
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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby bratboy_y2k » Wed 17.10.2012, 23:35

yes its the isuzu 1.8. it sits an ince taller but the valve cover sits about an inch lower. getting the bonnet modified (which probably doesnt need to happen) is much less work than a new engine. lets face it, isuzu took an engine and put it in a small hole. lotus took the same engine and put it in an even smaller hole. too fricken hard and messy.
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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby surfboardfiller » Thu 18.10.2012, 00:29

Can you get any more displacement from the 1.8 or is super/turbo charging the way to go?

Seems like a lot of work/cost for the average joe, so what bhp are you getting from the 1.8?
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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby lotos » Thu 18.10.2012, 03:11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Is ... u_X_engine

The 1.8 made a bit more power and was just fine in NA use, like my 1993 Geo Storm GSi. Personally I think the added displacement would be nice before the turbo kicked in. So I can imagine that hooking up the turbo to the 1.8 would be the best of all worlds, if you could make it fit. I'm sure they are cheap to come by in the states. (Could buy a Storm for $1,500 from some quick checking around) Good luck ! Fun project.
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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby MattDon » Thu 18.10.2012, 19:02

im happy with the 200-220hp mark which seems achievable with the 1.6, dont get me wrong there is an appeal to going to 1.8 or higher, but as was pointed out already wouldnt address my issues. would have to be relatively simple and cost effective to interest me.....

i may have also just come back from seeing a smart roadster brabus finale edition which has realy got me tempted.... (but i will still be keeping the SE and therefore looking to rebuild and modify it)
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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby bratboy_y2k » Fri 19.10.2012, 06:08

The difference in power between the 1.6 and 1.8 is minimal on paper (max power). I can tell you that when driving cars with the two engines the comparison is very noticable. The 1.8 feels like the torque is lifted right across the rev range and can only imagine that with a proper turbo conversion the result would be tasty. BTW Ive seen those 1.8 engines go for 100 bucks. New pistons and I would say new rods with the squirters installed with a turbo head would do it.
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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby surfboardfiller » Fri 19.10.2012, 08:04

I think the whole point of a turbo is it moves the torque further up the rev range, that's why they are used on Diesels extensively.
I can't see fundamentally how 0.2l makes much difference if both engines are turbocharged to the same tune.
It's not the torque you want from the engine its the BHP that gives you acceleration. Torque merely carries a load and the Elan is not much of a load so chasing torque figures is not much uses in isolation.

What's the power output in BHP for the 1.8 turbo charged or are we just talking theory here?
Any idea on the weight?

Isuzu petrol cars are pretty rare in Europe there are more Elans than Impulse/Piazzas
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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby bratboy_y2k » Fri 19.10.2012, 18:20

The car isn't the lightest. It is to average people but my Lotus standards it's pretty heavy. That torque will help at low revs for sure. I was speaking to one of the people that worked on design of the newest ecotec engines and he confirmed that the extra 14% discplacement would result in that much power increase over the range. It sounds like a minor inrease but if you consider history, the early esprit was a 2.0 and went to 2.2 litres. That 10% made a big difference to the motoring press and drivers in general. Having power come in earlier would be much nicer as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby surfboardfiller » Fri 19.10.2012, 19:29

I have a 2.0 S1 Esprit and I have driven a friends S1 fitted with a 2.2 (freshly rebuilt engine); both cars back to back and there really isn't much in it, he said the only difference is in torque but the 0-60 time would be the same if they had the same gear box.
I'm about to go to a 2.2 engine as it's what is available and the later engines are a bit more reliable due to the manufacturing improvements. I think you may find the 2.2 had a different gear set so the ratios made it seem quicker to 60 as there is 1 less gear shift, which would account for the press reviews.

It was the addition of the Turbo that made the big difference with the Esprit.

The power available earlier is the weak part of turbo charging, so I see why you are enjoying the NA for it's different performance characteristics but for me I like the tunability of the SE as I am not really enthusiastic about modifying engine internals. You can get 200 bhp easily with the Elan without adding lag or doing anything to the engine.

They could have built a lighter Elan, which would be nice. :wink:
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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby ashm » Sat 20.10.2012, 11:49

surfboardfiller wrote:They could have built a lighter Elan, which would be nice. :wink:


:agree:
TBH some further lightening would be my #1 wish for the car; that's why I'm interested in things like the Piper downpipe and lighter seats. I wonder if anybody's thought about getting the OE 15" wheel remade in some kind of uberlight forged magnesium alloy? Maybe we could do with a wiki page listing the comparative weights of some components where a lighter replacement is available?
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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby surfboardfiller » Sat 20.10.2012, 15:03

I think Lotus did well with 15" alloys, they have a big offset so the material is less in some ways. I looked into Carbon rims and the would make a hell of a lot of difference but a buckle would destroy the rim which makes the alloy a lot safer in some situations.

The boot and spoiler are hilariously heavy for what and where they are, as is the hood and stowage lid. I'd like to get Exige seats but I don't know anyone who has them to try out. :?:
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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby bratboy_y2k » Sat 20.10.2012, 18:21

Subaru 17 inch wheels go as low as 16 pounds each, less if you go with the 16 inch wheels. This would ofcourse mean front hub conversion.
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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby MattDon » Sat 20.10.2012, 20:41

my argument against going too far into lightening is that this isnt a lightweight racer and if thats what you want get an elise/vx220/mr-2/ etc, horses for courses. if anything i think the elan should enbrace the podge and go down the GT route. but each to their own. :-D

my dream elan would have a prettier rear, a nice engine note from a larger N/A engine, 6 speed box, and slightly better soundproofing... oh and a tvr interior. :twisted:
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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby bratboy_y2k » Sat 20.10.2012, 21:18

I think losing 6 pounds per corner is not the same as a lightweight racer. Especially when finding decent wheel replacements with correct offsets is an issue. Losing that bit of weight through new wheels, lighter seats and a few other small dtricks to knock off 150 pounds or so would make a big nice difference...coupled with the extra 14% discplacement!
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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby MattDon » Sat 20.10.2012, 22:20

fair point any weight off the rolling mass is a great thing. I did say going too far down this road, think once you start worrying about the "stationary" mass then your going down a slippery road.
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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby Fredjohn » Sat 20.10.2012, 22:50

Don't mean to be offensive but how about the following to improve power to weight ratio. The idea occured to me whilst pondering buying a carbon fibre road bike ilo an alloy frame to gain a minimal weight saving.

It would be much much cheaper and indeed healthier to go on a diet and lose weight, say a stone and a half. Thats over 5 pounds per corner and would be easier and a lot cheaper than trying to modify the car. The other thought is to loose the passenger saving around 140 pounds, but I guess for track days there is no passenger!

What did I do? Acquired a carbon fibre bike and didn't do the diet. Guess I'll never learn :bonk:
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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby surfboardfiller » Sat 20.10.2012, 23:05

Everything apart from 'NA' points to 1 thing. I think you should sell the Elans and buy an Esprit and they sound great anyway, especially a V8.
I don't see how buying a smart roadster is really going to solve any problems with the Elan and if you are going to embrace a mid life crisis then less is not more. :wink: :lol:

Pick up a V8 for about £18k which is less then a smart brabus and a tuned custom Engineered Elan and you'll have time to hang out with your family. :wink:
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Re: engine conversion, ideas and advice.

Postby bratboy_y2k » Sun 21.10.2012, 08:28

Yeah I plan on losing 20 even though I'm told I should lose 5, so that will subtract even more weight. It's not an either/or, it's a what else can we shed? Besides, it still won't lose unsprung weight so you just have to do that anyway. I love the G body Esprit, but the Elan is what I have so I think I'll dress it up so to speak and not worry about getting something else because then I'd have to start all of this nonsense once again. I'm looking at that 1.8 turbo conversion and I'll be deciding in spring if I do it. It still sounds like the way to go. The rest of you can go anorexic!
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