ESM Chips - Information & Help

Moderators: theelanman, Sy V, Elanlover, muley, Enright, GeoffSmith, algirdas, nitroman, clemo, dapinky, Dave Eds, Specky, Nige, DaveT

ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby ESM » Mon 16.08.2004, 08:23

The chips available at the moment modify the tables in the engine management unit responsible for setting boost targets. Three versions are available:<br><br>1) Kilimanjaro Standard low down but builds progressively with RPM to 0.8Bar. The engine behaves as standard below 50% throttle.<br><br>2) K2 Slightly above base low down and builds progressively to 0.9Bar. The engine behaves as standard below 50% throttle.<br><br>3) Everest 0.8-0.9Bar target @ from 2800RPM. The engine behaves as standard below 40% throttle.<br><br>All the peak boosts mentioned are for 100% throttle.<br><br>Here are the fitting instructions - this contains information about the potential issues and confilcts with any existing upgrades:<br>http://www.astb91.dsl.pipex.com/Installation_of_EEPROM_in_Lotus_Elan.doc
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to sit on your arse with a blank look on your face.

Click on my WWW link for information on chips and ElanScan.
User avatar
ESM
God
 
Posts: 2443
Joined: Thu 17.04.2003, 10:08

Re: ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby ESM » Mon 16.08.2004, 18:11

You needn't worry about earthing yourself when removing the ECU - its in an enclosed metal case. The ECU itself is relatively safe during the procedure, although its good practice to earth yourself so long as it open and your fiddling with it, its more the EEPROM and MEMCAL that need the protection. The wrist straps from PC world are ideal but being in contact with an earth by any means is sufficient<br><br>The components are pretty robust compared to some but its best to err on the safe side.
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to sit on your arse with a blank look on your face.

Click on my WWW link for information on chips and ElanScan.
User avatar
ESM
God
 
Posts: 2443
Joined: Thu 17.04.2003, 10:08

Re: ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby ESM » Mon 16.08.2004, 19:04

News on the S2 chip. <br><br>It turns out that the S2 with stock exhaust can't manage the near same boost pressures as the SE at any throttle opening because of catalyst back-pressure. Its touch and go if it can sustain 0.9bar across much of the rev range. With the current Everest chip the BSV is seriously overactive in the S2 and so another chip version will have to go out for testing before release. This will stall the US release as well I'm afraid. <br><br>I've modified the tables and will send out chips tomorrow. It explains the profile of the original boost maps though which were almost certainly created with catalyst issues in mind.
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to sit on your arse with a blank look on your face.

Click on my WWW link for information on chips and ElanScan.
User avatar
ESM
God
 
Posts: 2443
Joined: Thu 17.04.2003, 10:08

Re: ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby ESM » Mon 16.08.2004, 20:07

It best to take the ECU away from the car and install the chip indoors. Connect to an earth - like a pipe on a radiator for example (assuming its metal ;)). When you touch the antistatic bag and the ECU case they will be grounded through you. Then even if you start rubbing against a nylon carpet (for some reason    ::)) the charge will be carried away by the earth and nothing will fry.
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to sit on your arse with a blank look on your face.

Click on my WWW link for information on chips and ElanScan.
User avatar
ESM
God
 
Posts: 2443
Joined: Thu 17.04.2003, 10:08

Re: ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby ESM » Mon 16.08.2004, 20:13

Back to the S2. My analysis suggests that the S2 as stock cannot sustain 0.9bar past 5500RPM - it can't flow enough air beyond this engine speed. I reckon 0.9bar is probably stressing the turbo to its limit and it'd probably be better to use the Kilimanjaro in S2s unless a non-standard exhaust/catalyst is fitted....
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to sit on your arse with a blank look on your face.

Click on my WWW link for information on chips and ElanScan.
User avatar
ESM
God
 
Posts: 2443
Joined: Thu 17.04.2003, 10:08

Re: ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby Nige » Mon 16.08.2004, 20:45

Alan,<br><br>Glad I got my new exhaust now!  Your observations make sense to me as the Elanscan logs I have from each mod I have done to my car showed the most significant increase in power came from fitting the new exhaust.  Additionally, driveability improved significantly with the exhaust and I always had the feeling that with just the MBC/FCD arrangement the engine remained strangled at higher revs and logic suggested that if the inlet side was flowing freely then the exhaust must be the limiting factor.  If you wish I will send you log files of my car with an MBC, an MBC/FCD combo and my final pre chip configuration of MBC/FCD and new exhaust.  These are big files as they are each a near 60 mile run so I will zip them up to send.  Please confirm if these will be of use, as I dont want to clog up your connection unecessarily, (could copy to CD and post when I return the V1 chip).<br><br>Nige
Back in Blighty
User avatar
Nige
LEC Administrator
 
Posts: 3051
Joined: Thu 10.07.2003, 19:04
Location: Dorset and Surrey

Re: ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby John_W » Mon 16.08.2004, 20:51

[quote author=ElanScanMan link=board=upgrades;num=1092641037;start=0#6 date=08/16/04 at 12:13:11]Back to the S2. My analysis suggests that the S2 as stock cannot sustain 0.9bar past 5500RPM - it can't flow enough air beyond this engine speed. I reckon 0.9bar is probably stressing the turbo to its limit and it'd probably be better to use the Kilimanjaro in S2s unless a non-standard exhaust/catalyst is fitted....[/quote]<br>Alan,<br>surely by analogy you are implying that S2s and Federal Elans should not be fitted with MBCs, however several are.  ???  (Although the boost solenoid valve won't be stressed by an imposed high duty cycle - 'cos it'll be disconnected - the exhaust won't allow the full benefit to be enjoyed)<br><br>Is it just the case that people who fit MBCs to these cars also tend to fit bigger freer-flowing exhausts or inadvertently destroy the catalysts? ::)  [smiley=oops.gif]<br><br>John    <br><br>PS: and I can assure everybody that there's nothing wrong with a Kilimanjaro   ;D ;D ;D
User avatar
John_W
Philistine
 
Posts: 3192
Joined: Mon 21.04.2003, 12:31
Location: Aberdeen

Re: ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby ESM » Mon 16.08.2004, 21:16

You can set an MBC to hit 0.9bar. However, as the revs go up so does the flowrate requirement and this turbo just isn't able to keep up so the pressure falls. The MBC will see the same issue - the boost will peak at the same RPM and then decay.<br><br>I'm not suggesting the catalyst is in any danger. I'd recommend a lower boost target because: <br><br>1) I don't like taking any system beyond the limits of its capability. <br><br>2) It defeats the object of the boost control system to set targets it cannot attain. <br><br>3) The 0.8bar chip goes like stink anyway
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to sit on your arse with a blank look on your face.

Click on my WWW link for information on chips and ElanScan.
User avatar
ESM
God
 
Posts: 2443
Joined: Thu 17.04.2003, 10:08

Re: ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby Doug » Mon 16.08.2004, 21:47

[quote author=elanman link=board=upgrades;num=1092641037;start=0#7 date=08/16/04 at 12:45:31] . . . the Elanscan logs I have from each mod I have done to my car showed the most significant increase in power came from fitting the new exhaust.  Additionally, driveability improved significantly with the exhaust . . . [/quote]<br>Agreed; other than the boost increase, this is the best Elan upgrade!<br><br>Agree with Alan about the boost control issues and recs.<br><br>That's why I have the exhaust opened with the higher boost.  Waiting for my chip . . .  [smiley=biting.gif]
Image
User avatar
Doug
LEC Founder
 
Posts: 7486
Joined: Thu 17.04.2003, 06:43
Location: Oregon Coast, USA

Re: ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby Doug » Thu 02.09.2004, 08:39

Just found a little brown-wrap package sitting on my desk (my wife never tells me when I get goodies!) and it has a US Everest chip in it!!  [smiley=banana.gif]<br><br>Plan is for some Elan fun this weekend!   [smiley=Turbo.gif]<br><br>1. ES logs from current set-up<br>2. Remove MBC, re-fit the BSV and see if it works --> ES logs from standard boost<br>3.  Fit Everest chip and make same ES runs<br><br>logs will be sent to Alan and John so they can make some little graphs and compare with their findings . . .  ;D
Image
User avatar
Doug
LEC Founder
 
Posts: 7486
Joined: Thu 17.04.2003, 06:43
Location: Oregon Coast, USA

Re: ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby F1 LOTUS » Fri 03.09.2004, 07:20

[quote author=AV8NDOC link=board=upgrades;num=1092641037;start=0#11 date=09/02/04 at 00:39:38]Just found a little brown-wrap package sitting on my desk (my wife never tells me when I get goodies!) and it has a US Everest chip in it!!  [smiley=banana.gif]<br><br>Plan is for some Elan fun this weekend!   [smiley=Turbo.gif]<br><br>1. ES logs from current set-up<br>2. Remove MBC, re-fit the BSV and see if it works --> ES logs from standard boost<br>3.  Fit Everest chip and make same ES runs<br><br>logs will be sent to Alan and John so they can make some little graphs and compare with their findings . . .  ;D[/quote]<br>Doug, you'll need a 10MM wrench to slacken the ECM's retaining nuts after you've acquired visual contact. I THINK you'll need to take the seat out so you can get down between the pedals and steering wheel. Also I swapped mine out without pulling the plugs from the box.<br>Please let us know if you find a smarted way to do this!<br>
User avatar
F1 LOTUS
God
 
Posts: 2207
Joined: Thu 17.04.2003, 18:17
Location: SoCal, USA

Re: ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby Doug » Fri 03.09.2004, 07:30

thanks for the warning, Brian.  If I were still a virgin at this I would not know what you mean; but alas I have been to the ECU before. A bit easier to get to laying on my back in front of drivers seat looking upward with flashlight and tools within reach and legs shooting up in the air--only problem is you need a can-opener to get yourself up from this position--and I was at least 5 years younger last time I did it--I still remember the back pain from it though!!  :o
Image
User avatar
Doug
LEC Founder
 
Posts: 7486
Joined: Thu 17.04.2003, 06:43
Location: Oregon Coast, USA

Re: ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby ESM » Sat 04.09.2004, 14:55

I asked Chris Foulds (Foulds Motors) to try out my Elan to get his view of the chip (a K2). He likes it! Says most performance mods mess up the drivability for the sake of top end power but the power from the chip was really useable  :D<br><br>He also says anyone considering buying a chip who wants an independent opinion can give him a call - 01484 666552.<br><br>What a nice man.
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to sit on your arse with a blank look on your face.

Click on my WWW link for information on chips and ElanScan.
User avatar
ESM
God
 
Posts: 2443
Joined: Thu 17.04.2003, 10:08

Re: ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby Doug » Mon 06.09.2004, 06:51

[quote author=Brian_MDB link=board=upgrades;num=1092641037;start=0#12 date=09/02/04 at 23:20:57]Please let us know if you find a smarted way to do this!<br>[/quote]<br>Well, Brian, since you asked:<br>Once I got my head in there to remember the lie of the land, I remembered the trick I learned the first time I had to remove the ECU.<br><br>1.  Look up there and see what's what -- find the 2 10mm nuts on the side brackets -- the other side has rubber bungs and pops right out<br>2.  With driver's door open, sit on floor right next to the car and reach right hand in and find the ecu by feel and the 2 nuts. (This is actually a very comfortable normal sitting position)<br>3.  put 10mm ratchet spanner on the two nuts to loosen them a bit only<br>4.  undo the nuts carefully by hand -- don't drop and lose them!<br>5. pull ECU out and fold it down on the harness<br>6. 6.5mm socket on screwdriver handle to open 2 screws on endcap of metal ECU box.<br><br>Simple as that--took 10 minutes max!!<br>Now for some (hopeful) Everest fun tomorrow !!  [smiley=burnout.gif]
Image
User avatar
Doug
LEC Founder
 
Posts: 7486
Joined: Thu 17.04.2003, 06:43
Location: Oregon Coast, USA

Re: ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby F1 LOTUS » Mon 06.09.2004, 18:28

[quote author=AV8NDOC link=board=upgrades;num=1092641037;start=15#15 date=09/05/04 at 22:51:20]<br>Well, Brian, since you asked:<br>Once I got my head in there to remember the lie of the land, I remembered the trick I learned the first time I had to remove the ECU.<br><br>1.  Look up there and see what's what -- find the 2 10mm nuts on the side brackets -- the other side has rubber bungs and pops right out<br>2.  With driver's door open, sit on floor right next to the car and reach right hand in and find the ecu by feel and the 2 nuts. (This is actually a very comfortable normal sitting position)<br>3.  put 10mm ratchet spanner on the two nuts to loosen them a bit only<br>4.  undo the nuts carefully by hand -- don't drop and lose them!<br>5. pull ECU out and fold it down on the harness<br>6. 6.5mm socket on screwdriver handle to open 2 screws on endcap of metal ECU box.<br><br>Simple as that--took 10 minutes max!!<br>Now for some (hopeful) Everest fun tomorrow !!  [smiley=burnout.gif][/quote]<br><br>That sounds much easier!<br>Next time, now that I have the visual memory, I'll empty the garage so I'm able to open the Elans doors fully so I can do this in comfort!<br>
User avatar
F1 LOTUS
God
 
Posts: 2207
Joined: Thu 17.04.2003, 18:17
Location: SoCal, USA

Re: ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby runix3 » Sun 12.09.2004, 03:28

Hi folks, this is a very interesting topic indeed. I had some questions maybe you can answer. First, what's the price on these chips? I've searched high and low, but I guess I'm not looking hard enough. Second, you mention running the chips with a MBC or using the stock VSV, what about if you're using a EBC? Will you also notice a difference? I'm running the HKS EVC EZ right now, but I'm going to upgrade to the Profec E0-1 soon. It's a WAY better unit.  Many many options to mess around with. Do you foresee any problems cropping up if you're running the Everest chip? Thanks for your help.<br>Alex
1991 Isuzu Impulse RS--> JE Pistons,Total Seal Rings,TBird Turbo, Milan's Downpipe,Clutch Specialites Stage 3, HKS EVC EZ, 2.5" custom exhaust, stainless steel brakelines.
User avatar
runix3
Newbie
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat 14.08.2004, 03:57

Re: ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby Doug » Sun 12.09.2004, 04:25

Alex,<br><br>[s]From what I have heard, the Impulse and Elan ECUs are not interchangable. [/s]  What do I know  [smiley=aeh.gif]  Whatever Alan says below!<br><br>The Elan has an onboard Boost Solenoid Valve (BSV), which functions as an ECU-controlled EBC.  The function of the chip is to change the target boost in the chip to allow the onboard BSV to do the boost control.  This retains knock detection and the likes.<br><br>If you already have an EBC then what we are doing with the chip would not have use to you.  What you may need is fuel control or even a piggyback ECU.  This is going on with a few Elan guys in the "Projects" thread area.<br><br> 8)
Image
User avatar
Doug
LEC Founder
 
Posts: 7486
Joined: Thu 17.04.2003, 06:43
Location: Oregon Coast, USA

Re: ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby runix3 » Sun 12.09.2004, 10:00

Ahh, I see....Well, then the E-manage it is, lol. Thanks for the info. What's the difference between the RS and the Elan ECUs? Fuel/timing maps? I know that on the RS, we hit fuel cut at 13.75psi of boost, so the fun stops in a hurry. Elans hit it at 0.9Bar I take it? The RS also has a computer controlled BSV, except in the shop manual they call it a Vent Solenoid Valve(VSV). I think it's the same as your BSV, but I could be wrong.<br>Alex
1991 Isuzu Impulse RS--> JE Pistons,Total Seal Rings,TBird Turbo, Milan's Downpipe,Clutch Specialites Stage 3, HKS EVC EZ, 2.5" custom exhaust, stainless steel brakelines.
User avatar
runix3
Newbie
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat 14.08.2004, 03:57

Re: ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby ESM » Sun 12.09.2004, 15:26

Alex,<br><br>The cost is £100 - it is in the ECU hack thread somewhere and on the Isuzone site where someone asked the same question.<br><br>I'm not sure I agree with Doug about the compatibility of the Elan and Impulse ECU -  the code looks pretty similar (based on PROM dump I think is from an RS). I haven't had too much luck getting PROM ids or dumps directly out of Impulse RS guys so I don't know for sure. I could certainly do a similar chip for the RS given a dump of the stock PROM. I haven't backed out timing and fueling maps from the AYFZ PROM dump yet but the guy who sent me it said the timing is more aggressive.<br><br>The PROM changes I've made push the fuel cut up from 0.92bar to 0.96bar and changes the boost programme of the BSV (I agree its the same thing as the VSV). I can't see any advantage to running it at the same time as an EBC, it would be running two EBCs at the same time.<br><br>Cheers<br>  Alan<br><br>
It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to sit on your arse with a blank look on your face.

Click on my WWW link for information on chips and ElanScan.
User avatar
ESM
God
 
Posts: 2443
Joined: Thu 17.04.2003, 10:08

Re: ESM Chips - Information & Help

Postby runix3 » Mon 13.09.2004, 22:03

Hi Alan, thanks for the info. What's needed to get a prom dump from the RS? I have ElanScan on my laptop, so, if you think sending some runs would help to see how similar they are, I'd be glad to do that. Take care. [smiley=stirthepot.gif]<br>Alex
1991 Isuzu Impulse RS--> JE Pistons,Total Seal Rings,TBird Turbo, Milan's Downpipe,Clutch Specialites Stage 3, HKS EVC EZ, 2.5" custom exhaust, stainless steel brakelines.
User avatar
runix3
Newbie
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat 14.08.2004, 03:57

Next

Return to Upgrades

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest