Gearbox problem?

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Gearbox problem?

Postby Bern » Mon 17.12.2018, 20:42

Last week whilst changing into second there was a gearbox "graunch" and then I lost 1st, 3rd and 5th.

I managed to get home in 2nd and 4th. Reverse also works.

The gear lever felt sloppy, there was no definition to any of the changes.

Assuming it to be a broken cable I've removed them but they appear to be fine.

Moving the selectors on the gearbox by hand - the cross gate appears fine, but the gear selector appears to have little movement.

Any ideas? Does this look to be a gearbox out fix?

Cheers!
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Re: Gearbox problem?

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Mon 17.12.2018, 21:29

My best guess is you have the same issue as John W did. The nut on the end of 5th gear has come loose and the gears are not lined up anymore.

You can pull the shift housing and see if you can shift the box manually or you can assume the worst and drain the gearbox and remove the rear cover to see if the nut has come loose.

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Re: Gearbox problem?

Postby Bern » Mon 17.12.2018, 23:37

Wow, that's quite a read!

The way it came about is different, I hadn't even got as far as fifth gear as I'd only just started out, and it's not stuck in 5th, in fact 5th is one of the gears I can't get. Basically it's the "top/forward" row of gears that I can't get - 1st, 3rd and 5th. 2nd, 4th and reverse are there but they don't have a nice "gate" feel to them, you find them because you know where they are, if you see what I mean.

But it could be that, as you say, the gears aren't lined up any more - so maybe the symptoms aren't the same but the cause is!
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Re: Gearbox problem?

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Mon 17.12.2018, 23:52

You don't have to get to 5th for things to get bound up.

I would pull the shifter housing off the gearbox and manually shift the forks with a screwdriver to see if the shift housing has failed.

Around the US, it isn't hard to get a used shifter housing since they are the same as the GEO Storm and several Isuzu models.

John's issues were more dramatic because the nut moved further and allowed the gears to bind.

You can check both possibilities in a few hours (once you get clear access to the shifter housing).

I would move the coolant overflow / expansion bottle out of the way as well as anything else that is blocking clear view of the top of the gearbox.
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Re: Gearbox problem?

Postby Bern » Tue 18.12.2018, 08:36

Ok, thanks for the advice - I'll try that.

The expansion bottle is already moved, it was easier to get to the cables with it out of the way.

If I move the shifters by hand the cross gate (the one that moves in and out) action seems to be fine, but the twisting motion appears very limited. Of course I'm only looking at it because it's broken, I've no idea what it is meant to be like!
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Re: Gearbox problem?

Postby rip » Tue 18.12.2018, 10:32

I lost my gears steadily when my 5th nut came loose. I could change up, but not change down. If I slowed, I had to come to a complete halt, select first then set off, changing up normally.
You seem to have different symptoms so this may or may not be your problem. I agree that the cables then selector are the best things to look at first.

If it is your 5th gear nut, you can't just tighten it up again because the gears have shifted.
GST in Newmarket sorted mine without removing the box. He said if you do it carefully, the gears will re-seat themselves when you 'spin' the gearbox. Then you can tighten the nut again.
We don't take about the nut on the other shaft coming loose presumably because it spins in the other direction. If this one was left-handed then the engine's torque would tighten it instead of loosening it. IMO, this makes it a design fault.
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Re: Gearbox problem?

Postby Bern » Tue 18.12.2018, 21:12

Cheers Rip, hopefully I'll get a chance to take the selector off at the weekend. I guess I need to keep going further in until I find the issue.
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Re: Gearbox problem?

Postby Bern » Sun 30.12.2018, 19:24

I hope everyone is having a great Christmas!

Today I went to take the selector off the gearbox, but first checked that I could get the gears by hand - it appeared that I could.

So I put the cables back in, the gate still felt undefined but then when I've not driven the Elan for a while doesn't it always feel like that?? So I took it for a drive, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th - crunch! Then lost all gears apart from 1st and 3rd, which is kind of the opposite of the original problem.

Back home I found that I could still set the gears directly on the selector, and tried driving in reverse - that worked. But I can't get reverse using the gear lever.

So I'm thinking that a cable is nearly broken or maybe the frayed ends of the break are allowing it to work a bit?

I will order some new cables, at least I know how to get them in and out now!
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Re: Gearbox problem?

Postby Bern » Sun 13.01.2019, 20:43

Finally had a chance to look at this again today.

One of the e-clips is now missing from the end of the cable - that's likely to cause some issues, though doesn't explain what initially went wrong.

I've ordered some more, hopefully the £2.20 spent will fix it!

The poor thing is looking very mouldy inside, needs driving! Well, needs cleaning first!
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Re: Gearbox problem?

Postby Bern » Wed 16.01.2019, 15:58

I've fitted a new e-clip.

I can now get 2nd, 4th and reverse, and the gear change has no definition. I got 1st by moving the selector by hand.

I've just ordered some new cables from SJs, maybe at the weekend I'll fit them.......
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Re: Gearbox problem?

Postby Bern » Sat 19.01.2019, 22:03

I've got the new cables in place, and I can select all gears.

But I'm not happy with the movement.

Usually when changing from 2nd to 3rd the gearlever moves into the 3rd-4th plane naturally. Now it stays in the 1st-2nd plane and has to be moved across to 3rd.

I think that the right hand cable (can't remember which one that is now) isn't routed correctly. I removed the gearlever mechanism and it was very difficult to refit because the mechanism didn't want to sit flat.

The cables appear to be very close where they pass out of the chassis into the engine bay, I think the original cable passed out over to right but now seems to exit on top of the left hand cable. I could make the right hand outer cables longer with the adjusters perhaps!

Any ideas?

And if you should buy the SJ cable bracket it would be a good idea to file the sharp edges off of it before fitting - there's not much skin left on my hands!
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Re: Gearbox problem?

Postby Bern » Sun 20.01.2019, 13:47

I've driven the Elan today - all gears work but it doesn't centralise on the 3rd-4th plane, so changes from 2nd to 3rd and 5th to 4th aren't very nice as you need to know where the gears are to get them.

The gearbox itself, when not connected to the gear selector centralises in that plane without any problem. The cables themselves appear to move freely.

Looking at the gear lever mechanism diagrams there doesn't appear to be anything that would centralise the lever itself, so I guess it relies on the gearbox to do that.

I've adjusted the cross gate cable so far that I lose 1st and 2nd, and have taken it back as far as I can in the other direction. Thinking about it now, maybe it's the fore and aft not adjusted correctly (though they appear to work as they should), as the cross gate only centralises when the for and aft is in the middle. Though that can't be right, as it would find it somewhere, and I can move it through all planes.

:-(
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Re: Gearbox problem?

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sun 20.01.2019, 15:14

Bern wrote:I've driven the Elan today - all gears work but it doesn't centralise on the 3rd-4th plane, so changes from 2nd to 3rd and 5th to 4th aren't very nice as you need to know where the gears are to get them.

The gearbox itself, when not connected to the gear selector centralises in that plane without any problem. The cables themselves appear to move freely.

Looking at the gear lever mechanism diagrams there doesn't appear to be anything that would centralise the lever itself, so I guess it relies on the gearbox to do that. Unfortunately, you are correct

I've adjusted the cross gate cable so far that I lose 1st and 2nd, and have taken it back as far as I can in the other direction. Thinking about it now, maybe it's the fore and aft not adjusted correctly (though they appear to work as they should), as the cross gate only centralises when the for and aft is in the middle. Though that can't be right, as it would find it somewhere, and I can move it through all planes.
Friction from a lot of design flaws makes it hard to figure out what is happening.

:-(


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Re: Gearbox problem?

Postby Bern » Sun 27.01.2019, 19:26

Finally got it all working today!

I had to make the cross gate cable longer, using a short length of M6 studding and an over size nut!

And also followed advice from John - many thanks for that!

It was good to be back driving it :D
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Re: Gearbox problem?

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sun 27.01.2019, 19:46

Congrats!
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