Inner CV boot

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Inner CV boot

Postby Grockle » Sun 17.03.2019, 15:23

Hi
I am in the process of overhauling (cleaning and replacing the grease) my CV joints, I have carefully removed the existing original boot (GKN CRC-C625 E06917 - 023) as it is not split. I have purchased what I thought was an original lotus replacement ( A111D6011S) but it is not the same. The larger end that goes over the tulip is not long enough to go over the plastic disc and the tulip. My question is, what does the plastic disc do, is it necessary and was it fitted to later models? Can I do away with it or is there an alternative boot that will allow the disc to be retained. I understand that others may have moved the disc away from the tulip and into the largest flute but this must surely restrict movement of the boot and possibly lead to premature failure. I do not really want to refit the original boot but I do not want to create a potential problem for the future.
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Re: Inner CV boot

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sun 17.03.2019, 17:30

Grockle wrote:Hi
I am in the process of overhauling (cleaning and replacing the grease) my CV joints, I have carefully removed the existing original boot (GKN CRC-C625 E06917 - 023) as it is not split. I have purchased what I thought was an original lotus replacement ( A111D6011S) but it is not the same. The larger end that goes over the tulip is not long enough to go over the plastic disc and the tulip. My question is, what does the plastic disc do, is it necessary and was it fitted to later models? Can I do away with it or is there an alternative boot that will allow the disc to be retained. I understand that others may have moved the disc away from the tulip and into the largest flute but this must surely restrict movement of the boot and possibly lead to premature failure. I do not really want to refit the original boot but I do not want to create a potential problem for the future.

The A100R6005S Inner CV Joint Boot kit was replaced by A111D6011S in 2013.

The A100R6004S Outer CV Joint Boot Kit is still available under that number.

Lotus would not continue shipping a part that won't fit, so did you want the boot for the Inner or Outer CV Joint?

Did you buy it from a Lotus dealer or a seller offering it as a substitute? Was it supplied in a Lotus package?
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Re: Inner CV boot

Postby Grockle » Sun 17.03.2019, 18:07

Thanks for the response Brit-Car-Nut.
I purchased the boot from JS Sportscars, it arrived in a plastic bag with no lotus markings. I note that you say the original inner boot was replaced with the one I have do you know if the plastic disc was dropped at this time and would it be detrimental if I left it out?
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Re: Inner CV boot

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sun 17.03.2019, 18:26

I wouldn't "drop" anything from the joint. How about attaching a picture of the plastic disc since I don't have any driveshafts sitting around without the boots on.

Maybe someone has replaced the actual joint with something non-standard, thus a fitment issue?

The original part number fits fine and I suspect SJs has sourced a "similar but not the same" cheaper boot that is not a good fit.

All Lotus parts are shipped in a Lotus box or envelope with a big Lotus label on it.

I get replacement boots from a local driveshaft rebuilder and they have been a good fit for everyone that has gotten them from me.

One CV Joint is basically from a Ford and the other is from a Subaru (those cars use the same joints), so that is the interchange I am provided.

I have the details which is which - Inner or outer - but I am away from my notes for a while.

I am in the US, so not a help for you with this problem but someone closer to you that has changed their boot(s) will jump in soon and give you some local advice.
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Re: Inner CV boot

Postby Grockle » Sun 17.03.2019, 20:05

Thanks again Brit-Car-Nut for your reply
I attach some photos of the boots and the disc. The disc is white plastic and when I removed the boot was sitting in the boot recess against the end of the tulip. The difference between the length of the wider end is 24.5mm on the original and 17mm on the new one, which is the reason it cannot be secured onto the tulip.
Having trouble uploading a picture as there is a 2MB limit and the phot is 2.9MB.
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Re: Inner CV boot

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sun 17.03.2019, 20:13

It sounds like you got the wrong boot.
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Re: Inner CV boot

Postby Simon_P » Sun 17.03.2019, 20:41

The plastic disc is to stop the tripod from coming out of the tulip under certain conditions.

My post here may be useful to you.
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=7140&p=81106&hilit=Tripod#p81106

The inner boot was a very common part. I would be surprised if you couldn't get the current version from a GKN stockist by quoting the number you have.

Be wary of aftermarket gaiters, they tend to be generic one size fits all, which given Lotus' approach to clearance means that they get a bit too close to the raft. Avoid using tie wraps they aren't really up to the job.

The Lotus outer boot is not the original supplied part.
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Re: Inner CV boot

Postby Grockle » Sun 17.03.2019, 21:12

Hi Brit-Car-Nut
Just resized the photo and attach it below
Inner CV joint.jpg
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Re: Inner CV boot

Postby Grockle » Sun 17.03.2019, 21:15

Hi Brit-Car-Nut again
Attached is a photo of the two boots showing the difference in height of the large diameter that fits over the tulip. The original is able to accommodate the plastic disc while the new one will not.

CV boots.jpg
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Re: Inner CV boot

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sun 17.03.2019, 22:25

Simon_P wrote:The plastic disc is to stop the tripod from coming out of the tulip under certain conditions.

My post here may be useful to you.
http://forum.lotuselancentral.com/viewt ... pod#p81106

The Lotus outer boot is not the original supplied part.


According to the parts book, the inner boot is A100R6005S and the Outer is A100R6004S

A100R6005S is the part number that has been superseded, A100R6004S is the OUTER and it is still a production and available part from Lotus.
Just so you don't think I am stating this from my horrible memory, I have the current Dealer price book and that is the notation for the part number.
SJS also show A100R6005S superseded but is showing their part as a cheaper alternative. It isn't a lot cheaper when it ties up the repair and you have to go elsewhere to get the right part anyway.
The current Lotus Factory price is £20.08, SJs alternative part is £16.71 so about 4 quid cheaper.
Now, if the parts book got the numbers wrong, I can't solve that problem BUT the description in the price book has them noted as INNER Boot..
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Re: Inner CV boot

Postby Simon_P » Mon 18.03.2019, 07:05

Hi John,

That wasn't what I meant. I'm sure the lotus parts are valid, what I meant is that the supplied part is not the same as the original. The original rubber boot was a high performance application, and wasn't available in 2006 (I had the last ones from GKN). The part that you will get from Lotus is one that will fit, that is most suitable for the application.

Grockle,
Your picture is labelled "Original and New" I think you mean "New and Original" The one on the right is much higher quality - look at the shape of the convolutes on the one on the right also note the size of the moulding flash on the one on the left which wouldn't be acceptable for an OEM part. The convolutes are sized and shaped suitable to the application and the inner face of the clamping area is designed so that it fits the tulip and shaft correctly and seals properly.

Also looking at your pictures it looks like the driveshaft is quite new, the boot is unworn, I would just refit it using the original metal clamps.
Not sure why you are overhauling it? was there a problem? The grease that you put in is likely to be inferior to the grease that you took out.
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Re: Inner CV boot

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Mon 18.03.2019, 12:54

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought the pictures were confusing and maybe the Lotus parts book might be wrong.
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Re: Inner CV boot

Postby Grockle » Mon 18.03.2019, 19:08

Thanks for the recent comments. Apologies for my comment at the bottom of the photo I should have made it clearer which one was the new boot and which was the original and the way it reads is back to front. The one on the right is the GKN original and was held on the tulip by a non adjustable steel band. The driveshafts are original and have been cleaned and painted. When the original boot was removed the grease poured out like a thick oil and has been replaced with a quality lithium grease. I can refit the original boot but given its age I wanted to replace it with a new one. One point that does confuse me is why the boot A111D6011S does not fit. Does anyone know the difference between this and the previous boot A100R6005S. The fact that the replacement boot will not sit on the tulip correctly if there is a plastic disc suggests the later inner CV joints didn't have a disc. Can anyone confirm if this is correct?
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Re: Inner CV boot

Postby Giniw » Fri 19.04.2019, 17:05

Brit-Car-Nut wrote:One CV Joint is basically from a Ford and the other is from a Subaru (those cars use the same joints), so that is the interchange I am provided.

I have the details which is which - Inner or outer - but I am away from my notes for a while.
Are they?!
I thought they were specific to the M100?! Or is it the complete CV shaft that is specific? Because that would be great if we had a CV joint replacement!
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Re: Inner CV boot

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Fri 19.04.2019, 17:18

The SHAFT is UNIQUE to the M100 - Length being unique.

The internal parts used are STANDARD SPICER Joints. I got that info from the local (national) rebuilder.

The outer boots are from the 1989 Ford Escort and the inner boots are from the 1990 Subaru wagon.

My assumption is the actual joints are the same, but I never asked them to clarify since the most common parts requested are the boots.

It could be the balls and clips are generic and the housings are unique, but I doubt it with GM pulling the strings...
Last edited by Brit-Car-Nut on Fri 19.04.2019, 23:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Inner CV boot

Postby Simon_P » Fri 19.04.2019, 23:37

Giniw,
If you read my post from 2006 the information came from the factory where the driveshafts were made, and was given to me first hand whilst stood in the prototype shop collecting my rebuilt driveshafts.

John, I recall that GM in Europe made their own driveshafts, until about 2000 when GKN bought their facility, so GM driveshafts of the era are unlikely to have anything in common.
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Re: Inner CV boot

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Fri 19.04.2019, 23:55

All I know is I drop off the driveshafts at the rebuilder and they are completely rebuilt with new joints, boots, grease and clips. All of the parts are on their shelves as they are done within a few hours.

They have the machinery to make new shafts and other parts, but the actual CV Joints are standard shelf stock. My car was manufactured in 1990 and that is before 2000.

Maybe they used GM US designed joints and GM supplied them? I know they are not GM manufactured, rather they are GM assembled using industry standard SPICER components.

If it wasn't so expensive to ship a driveshaft around the world, I would have had the 20+ used shafts I have collected over the years rebuilt and started an exchange service.
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Re: Inner CV boot

Postby Simon_P » Sat 20.04.2019, 09:52

Hi John,

Any competent driveshaft rebuilder can rebuild them. These are large companies with global aftermarket operations they make parts for all products not just their own. Spicer is a Dana Brand and is not Industry standard, sure they make parts by the millions so they are plentiful and cheap.

Yes our cars were made in the '90s which is why I pointed out that GM had their own driveshaft production facility until well after our cars were made.

Searching for which car the CV joints may be interchangeable with is like hunting for unicorns, and surely leads you back to the re-manufacturer - why not just ask them?

It wouldn't be difficult to get the entire new driveshafts re-made if ever the supply dries up.
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