Removing Wheel hub nut. Advice needed.

[Tuga2112]

In order to swap the clutch first step is to drain the oil, remove the front wheels and hub nuts

is there any special tricks to this job
I have a 1200mm breaker bar. But the nut wouldn't bulge. Did I miss some intermediate step, or do I need even more leverage?

[Fredjohn]

Joa

It's a castellated nut with a split pin: remove the pin first! EDIT WRONG!!!!!!! It's a peened over nut: tap the peen back straight then undo.

Replace the wheel after removing the centre, lower car back onto the wheel, have someone put their foot hard on the brake, in gear, then try with your breaker bar (with short extension). It will need a lot of persuading. I got one off easily but really struggled with the other. In the end I hired an electric impact driver for 15mins: cost me £10. This did the trick easily, but you still need the car standing on its wheels/brakes on to prevent the shaft turning.

Fortunately the hire company are only 10 mins away, so I returned the impact driver immediately the nut was off.
John

[alan e]

If you go onto YouTube restoration C service he shows you how to remove a hub nut if its very tight, It worked for me with no problem good luck

[Tuga2112]

alan.

are you referring to this video ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osBhwSw3VBk
this shows the trick about the crack pulley, however my dificulty is with the hub nut.

John,
i did not see any split pin. however, i will have a look for it tomorow more carefully.
the way i tried to remove it was by keeping the car in the air but having someone to slam on the brakes to avoid the shaft from spinning
the breaker bar was on (more precisely, close to) the 9 o'clock position, so all the force was pushing down instead of trying to move the car forward.

Thanks.

[Brit-Car-Nut]

Joa

It's a castellated nut with a split pin: remove the pin first!
John

John: On my M100s, the nut is peened to lock it. There aren't any split pins. That is the method for the rear hub nuts. Joa is trying to remove the front driveshaft.

[Fredjohn]

Joa

It's a castellated nut with a split pin: remove the pin first!
John

John: On my M100s, the nut is peened to lock it. There aren't any split pins. That is the method for the rear hub nuts. Joa is trying to remove the front driveshaft.

John you are of course correct. My memory failed me. Mine were peened over too. I have corrected my original post accordingly. Thanks

[Tuga2112]

Joa

It's a castellated nut with a split pin: remove the pin first!
John

John: On my M100s, the nut is peened to lock it. There aren't any split pins. That is the method for the rear hub nuts. Joa is trying to remove the front driveshaft.

John you are of course correct. My memory failed me. Mine were peened over too. I have corrected my original post accordingly. Thanks

So.... i just need more leverage then ?

[alan e]

alan.

are you referring to this video ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osBhwSw3VBk
this shows the trick about the crack pulley, however my dificulty is with the hub nut.

John,
i did not see any split pin. however, i will have a look for it tomorow more carefully.
the way i tried to remove it was by keeping the car in the air but having someone to slam on the brakes to avoid the shaft from spinning
the breaker bar was on (more precisely, close to) the 9 o'clock position, so all the force was pushing down instead of trying to move the car forward.

Thanks.

Yes sorry its old age coming on. but make sure the car is on the ground with the wheel on before trying to remove the nut

[lotusflasherman]

Worth noting that the torque for hub nut to driveshaft is 230Nm (170 ftlb) so it will be tight and take some shifting. As Alan suggests - wheel on the ground and give it a big yank with the big shifter, rather than a steady pull, so you copy how an impact driver works. Should come but if not some intense heat to expand the nut only might help..

[Brit-Car-Nut]

I would avoid heat at all costs so you don't heat the bearing and/or destroy the grease and require rebuilding that too.

I have had to drill straight into the nut (parallel and as close to the threads as possible) and then hit the nut with a small, sharp chisel to break the nut. They are only a few pence to replace as compared to other problems heat can cause.

The best solution is un-peen the locking area and use a proper 6 point socket (3/4 drive is best) and a strong breaker bar that is at least 2 to 3 feet long.

I believe reverse gear is the best choice to put the gearbox in (to help lock the shaft) as it has the lowest mechanical advantage when spinning the wheel

[alan e]

I have a pipe bender which I slide onto my breaker bar making it about 1.75 mts long with a impact socket on the hub nut.

[Brit-Car-Nut]

Good choice!

[Tuga2112]

i could use my breaker bar with an impact socket at the end, and use a capper hammer to hit the socket while adding pressure. although i am not sure if hitting the breaker bar with the hammer is healthy for the joint....

Britcarnut. thanks for the warning about the heat. i will try to avoid that.

[lotusflasherman]

I would avoid heat at all costs so you don't heat the bearing and/or destroy the grease and require rebuilding that too.

I have had to drill straight into the nut (parallel and as close to the threads as possible) and then hit the nut with a small, sharp chisel to break the nut. They are only a few pence to replace as compared to other problems heat can cause.

The best solution is un-peen the locking area and use a proper 6 point socket (3/4 drive is best) and a strong breaker bar that is at least 2 to 3 feet long.

I believe reverse gear is the best choice to put the gearbox in (to help lock the shaft) as it has the lowest mechanical advantage when spinning the wheel

That''s why I wrote 'intense heat' on the nut John ... if the driveshaft gets hot there won't any differential expansion so it will be a waste of time. Bearings get pretty hot in service and they won't get anywhere near that. Had a geo' check at Hanger111 and they used a neat little induction heater on the trackrod locknut that I couldn't shift.

[HJ2]

I don't remember undoing these nuts to exchange the clutch however...
But perhaps it is the combination of exhaustion and a couple of beers...

[Brit-Car-Nut]

I would avoid heat at all costs so you don't heat the bearing and/or destroy the grease and require rebuilding that too.

I have had to drill straight into the nut (parallel and as close to the threads as possible) and then hit the nut with a small, sharp chisel to break the nut. They are only a few pence to replace as compared to other problems heat can cause.

The best solution is un-peen the locking area and use a proper 6 point socket (3/4 drive is best) and a strong breaker bar that is at least 2 to 3 feet long.

I believe reverse gear is the best choice to put the gearbox in (to help lock the shaft) as it has the lowest mechanical advantage when spinning the wheel

That''s why I wrote 'intense heat' on the nut John ... if the driveshaft gets hot there won't any differential expansion so it will be a waste of time. Bearings get pretty hot in service and they won't get anywhere near that. Had a geo' check at Hanger111 and they used a neat little induction heater on the trackrod locknut that I couldn't shift.

Snap-On gave a demonstration of their induction heater and although not cheap, it only heats the immediate component. Unfortunately, a propane torch isn't that selective. In my 30 years of repair service, I have had too many DIY'ers drag their cars in after they almost melted the nut and spindle only to have to replace the parts they damaged and then pay to have it fixed correctly. I have learned to avoid suggesting anything that can go terribly wrong when suggesting solutions for DIY repairs. If Joa can't un-peen the lock and remove the nut with the tools at hand, then it needs to go to a shop that has the right tools OR HIS FRIENDS COULD SHOW UP AND LEND A HAND . It will cost less than possible collateral damage from inexperience. You don't use heat to assemble the nut, so you shouldn't use heat to disassemble it. Yeah, I know, "we do it all the time".
It is too dangerous and too expensive to "learn" on parts of the steering and suspension that could kill you if you don't know how.
I don't want to argue, but leave the heat out of this project.

[Brit-Car-Nut]

I don't remember undoing these nuts to exchange the clutch however...
But perhaps it is the combination of exhaustion and a couple of beers...

HJ:
You need to pull the driveshafts out of the gearbox to remove it and get to the clutch. There a numerous ways to accomplish this, but the guide is suggesting pulling the driveshafts completely. The Lotus manual suggests the following:

Gearbox.jpg

[Tuga2112]

That''s why I wrote 'intense heat' on the nut John ... if the driveshaft gets hot there won't any differential expansion so it will be a waste of time. Bearings get pretty hot in service and they won't get anywhere near that. Had a geo' check at Hanger111 and they used a neat little induction heater on the trackrod locknut that I couldn't shift.

Phill,
I have no doubt you have the best intentions with your advice.

And i don't mean to come across in a negative or condescending way, if i do, please blame it on the language barrier.

Just keep in mind that I have a more laymen understanding of your wording, as well as a limited "DIY grade" set of tools at hand to achieve results you refer too. In my case, there is also the fact English not being my native language.

in this scenario. luckily, i am aware butane torches are "not very hot" when it comes to this kind of thing, however, if i had a propane torch in my toolbox i would very likely give it a go.

my current understanding of the heat solution is that it would not be possible to use that trick unless i had some special workshop equipment. so, i will be looking into the idea of using the breaker bar + an impact socket and a copper hammer.

if that fails. i will probably make another trip to machine mart to buy a "proffecional" grade air (or electric) impact driver as from my understanding those will have 400-500nm force to break the nut loose. not to mention they can speed up the process of taking wheels out.

[HJ2]

Yes, they need to come out of the gearbox obviously, but i must have used another method.
Anyway, if the nut can't be undone... there are other ways to replace the clutch to get the car back on the road.

now that i come to think about it... I undid the lower ball joints and that gave enough slack to pop the shafts out

[alan e]

Get a short scaffold pole on your breaker bar but use a impack socket the extra lever will move it and also brake a non impack socket.