Gearbox problems

Drivetrain problems

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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby ektrolleyboy » Mon 27.04.2009, 11:11

So a syncro change down the line or a would a full bebuild be more cost effective?
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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby ektrolleyboy » Sun 16.08.2009, 16:59

Just gone for a fairly vigourous fast pull of the gear lever from first to second and "Ooh. That was a missed change? Doesn't feel right!".
Pulled over to inspect.
Gear lever is in Neautral with movement downwards available but not selecting and springing back to neautral. The lever won't even try to move forwards of it's travel.

The transmision itself is stuck in second gear with no ability to change into any gear from the lever which is in neautral. Managed to pull away in second and get the car home.

Cables?
Or gearbox knackered? Anyone got an idea...?

Not a happy bunny! :evil:

EK.
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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby ektrolleyboy » Mon 17.08.2009, 11:18

Fortunately PAUL MATTY have a transporter. Yay!
:D (well you would working on Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious, wouldn't you) :roll:


I'll check the price of the A.B gear cables now and hope it is just the cables that need replacing. Either way I'll change them I think to make sure they won't go again.
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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby Jackonicko » Sat 05.09.2009, 23:21

Same for me, but stuck in third. Clutch works fine, mercifully.
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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby owentec » Fri 11.09.2009, 10:16

Just to add to the very useful information in this thread...

I had a very noisy gearbox that was becoming more and more difficult to get into gear. When I took the cover off, I found the left hand (ie front) nut had undone completely and embedded itself in the gearbox casing. The right hand nut was still on its peening marks. Having got hold of a new nut, and torqued both up, I found that the gearbox was effectively stuck in 5th (ie regardless of what you do with the stick, it was in 5th, and if you selected any other gear, it would stall the engine). This seemed very strange, because I could see that the 5th gear selector was not moved across to select 5th! By slightly undoing the right hand nut, the gearbox went back to its previous state, and I located the noise as being the 5th gear continually rubbing against its synchro ring.

Having removed the 5th gear from the shaft, it was apparent that the gear is made in 2 parts (the gear itself, and the dog ring). Mine had seperated slightly, presumably because the layshaft gear had been pushing against it because it no longer had the bolt holding it in place. I used a press to push the 2 pieces back together, put it all back in the box, and its now quiet, and works properly. I suspect this is what Gerald at GST has been talking about when it comes to using a press.

The dog ring has a taper on it, which is what the synchro ring presses against as you select the gear. The idea is that this accelerates the gear prior to engagement. Because the 5th gear/dog-ring had become wider, the synchro gear was continually pressing on this taper, and the action of torquing up the nut was increasing the pressure so far that the engine could not break the taper when in other gears.

To dispel a few myths though... although I did run the gearbox with the cover off, and with the nuts loose, it didn't seem to help fix the problem. It did help with the diagnosis, however. As far as I could tell, the two nuts only hold 5th gear on, and you need to dissassemble further to affect the other gears.
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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby saska » Fri 11.09.2009, 19:18

owentec wrote:Having removed the 5th gear from the shaft


Very interesting post. Did you have to use a puller to get 5th gear off ?
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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby owentec » Sat 12.09.2009, 22:42

Nope, its on a needle bearing, so slides off easily. I didn't try and remove the layshaft gear, but it seemed to move around when the nut was loose, so I imagine that will also come off without a puller.
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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby valimar » Thu 24.09.2009, 16:24

Hi All,
At last I had some free time to dedicate to the car! I empty the gearbox oil again and fill it with special cleaning oil and went for a drive experiencing the same problems: after using the 5th I had to stop the car to go back to neutral. I empty the gearbox, with hot oil, and fill it up this time with Silkolene Pro SRG 75. It was like magic: after driving about 20 miles on the high way I could change gears almost perfectly! Now after driving for about 550 miles I only have a minor problem that should be solved by simply adjusting the AB cables: now and then by de-accelerating, driving on 5th, the gearlever “jumps to neutral.
I would like to finish this thread by saying something quite controversial: My problems started when I changed the OEM cables for the AB ones and at the same time I changed the gear oil for Red Line MTL! I always suspected that were not the cables but the new oil! Now I start to believe that some of the problems that many of us have could be somehow related with the use of Red Line MTL! From now on SILKOLENE is the word for me!
At last I would like to pay tribute to the precious information that Gerald from GTS gave me on the phone without it I surely would not solve my problem! Thanks again Gerald!
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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby owentec » Thu 15.10.2009, 09:36

Just for completeness...

Lotus have the 5th gear nuts still available, part number A100F6201S about £3.60+vat each.
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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby ashm » Thu 15.10.2009, 14:43

So the directions of shaft rotation cause the 5th gear nut to loosen, and the other one to tighten?
Sounds like we need a replacement shaft with a left hand thread, so they both tighten under load...

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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby lotusguymichael » Sat 17.04.2010, 03:16

I know this is a quite a few months back, but what was your final outcome on this issue? This is exactly what is happening to my gearbox except for the "fairly vigourous fast pull of the gear lever from first to second"!! I was actually being very easy on the shifts and suddenly LOCK in 2nd, lever in neutral. :bonk: See, "Gearbox stuck in 2nd" in this topic.

Michael

ektrolleyboy wrote:Just gone for a fairly vigourous fast pull of the gear lever from first to second and "Ooh. That was a missed change? Doesn't feel right!".
Pulled over to inspect.
Gear lever is in Neautral with movement downwards available but not selecting and springing back to neautral. The lever won't even try to move forwards of it's travel.

The transmision itself is stuck in second gear with no ability to change into any gear from the lever which is in neautral. Managed to pull away in second and get the car home.

Cables?
Or gearbox knackered? Anyone got an idea...?

Not a happy bunny! :evil:

EK.
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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby jimjams » Sun 18.12.2011, 17:40

hi,

is this the gear your suposed to press together.

thanks
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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby RayD » Sun 18.12.2011, 21:46

Welcome to LEC,

I got my understanding of this from Owen, he and others are better placed to explain as they have done the job … when I sent him this diagram ...

Owen.jpg

he said …

… If I'm looking at that picture correctly, then the red piece and yellow piece are the main and synchro gears. They are a tight interference fit and what happens is that the layshaft bolt comes undone, which causes the lay-gear to move down the shaft. This, in turn, gradually pushes the synchro gear (yellow) off the main gear (red). Once you do the bolts back up, this extra depth in the gear assembly causes the gear train to lock up. So it’s just a case of removing the two gears and closing up the gap between them.

So if you see those as being the Red and Yellow items then yes … they should be touching each other as shown in the diagram.

Ray
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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby bobbrown » Sun 18.12.2011, 22:19

As a note to others that have not yet had this problem, there is a good chance it may well develop as the nut does come loose.

It would appear that it is also more likely if you increase the power like an exhaust change or a chip upgrade etc.

When Dean was changing his gearbox oil I suggested he take a look at the nuts, he did question my reasoning but went ahead and took the cover off and one of the nuts was loose. This was caught in time and was just a case of tightening the nut up and staking the nut, not to say it will stay tight but at least now tight and it is well staked.

There are symptoms that this problem is developing, if you have problem selecting gears even on the move also when stationary with the car in neutral when you press the clutch in the revs rise or the engine nearly stalls when you release the clutch then this is the place to look. I’m not saying this is the only reason for the above symptoms just one cause and for the sake of taking the cover off for a look see.
May be a bit of preventative maintenance but do not complain if they are tight and you think it was a waste of time, at least you have checked and can ensure the nut is staked correctly.

What happens when the nut comes loose is it allows the shaft to move and causes the other syncro’s for the other gears to part engage and drag; this can lead to premature wear on the other syncro’s.

Bob
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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby tigerdog » Sun 18.12.2011, 23:36

Thanks for the cautionary word, Bob. One other note: I will agree redline MTL is not the correct lubricant. Redline MT90 is correct and made quite a difference to both shifting and gearbox noise.
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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby wayne » Mon 19.12.2011, 21:07

I'm sure my car is surfing the net trying to figure out what problem to give me next.....

2 days ago after reversing. Gear lever was stuck in reverse. after switching off engine depressed the clutch peddle a few times and then re starting all has been fine since?

I have noticed since I got the car back a year ago that gear changes are not as smooth as they used to be (a little more force than I remember when going through all gears and a slight click between gear and neutral...? I had put this down to the gear change cables being replaced by the last owner and probably not aligned properly but I had never got around to looking into it.

After reading this thread for the first time maybe it's more serious than I thought? :(
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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby owentec » Tue 20.12.2011, 23:23

jimjams wrote:hi,

is this the gear your suposed to press together.

thanks


Yes, those are the parts. There should be very little gap between the two gears.

Let us know if that solves your problems... it did mine, but there could be more issues in some cases.

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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby jimjams » Wed 21.12.2011, 18:08

thanks for the info. ive got the gears pressed together now and have managed to get my hands on some crimp nuts. i was wondering if they might be better than the original type as they came loose. i would also lock tight them on?
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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby bobbrown » Wed 21.12.2011, 18:32

May be a drop of thread lock might also help reduce the chances of them coming loose again.

Bob
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Re: Gearbox problems

Postby blackrider » Tue 10.01.2012, 20:41

Hi All,

I have like many had a few gearbox problems. I managed to break a cable. I replaced the pair and all the forward gears were fine , but getting reverse was still a nightmare. Even with the cables disconnected it wasn't possible to select reverse. The turret assembly was removed and checked and as there were no visible faults the next step was box out. I took it to All gears in Kingston ( not Jamaica). Investigation revealed break up of some of the bearings , and some of the fragments were causing the selector to jam. A rebuild was carried out 9 not too expensive), and the lump was thrown back in. Bum !! Still no reverse. The reverse light sitch had been installed without a 3mm packing washer , once that was installed it all came good. I can help with some more details and engine and transmission part numbers from a cheaper source than Lotus
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