Gearbox stuck in 2nd

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Gearbox stuck in 2nd

Postby lotusguymichael » Sat 10.04.2010, 01:20

I did a clutch replacement on my elan back in November. While I was installing the Spec 3+ kit, I sent the gearbox out to have a Quaiff Dif installed. The reassemembly was completed without any problems. The next day, I went out to test drive the car. My Trans started out with 1st/2nd, 5th/reverse, but no 3/4. A few weeks ago I went out to do a diagnostic drive and the trans locked into 2nd gear only and the shifter flopped around in neutral. If I shifted,the lever would only do 5th or reverse and would totally lock up against the 2nd gear. I emailed Gerald Turner at GST Performance, one of the techs who was involved in the original M100 project at Lotus in drive train development. He was very knowledgeable about the Isuzu trans, and he felt that one of the pins may have gone missing after I had a Quaiff Differential installed last summer by a shop up in Marin, California. The part that sucks is that the trans shifted fine before I installed it in the car.

I am trying to avoid pulling the trans again when the problem may be fixable without all that drama. The cables are original but fine. The cheap plastic adjusters are not stripped, and are working OK. I have pulled the end cover and checked the tourque on the primary and secondary shafts and they are OK. I have pulled the selector box off and found the 1st/2nd shaft in the correct 2nd gear position, and with a screwdriver I am able to shift the trans back into nuetral. When I reasemble the box and start shifting it, I still cannot get 3rd and 4th, and after a few shifts it locks back into 2nd again.

I would appreciate any input on this. I would like to say thank you to all who have contributed to this excellent forum. Your Information and advice has saved me 6 or 7 thousand dollars in repair bills over the last 3 years of ownership!
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Re: Gearbox stuck in 2nd

Postby Specky » Sat 10.04.2010, 07:27

The only thing I would say is double check those cables...

When they go, they crack. When they have no pressure on... It's dam near impossible to see anything wrong.

There could be one clue to having a cracked plastic adjuster. The E-clip/ circlip is sometimes missing

TTFN
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Re: Gearbox stuck in 2nd

Postby lotusgirlmarie » Sat 10.04.2010, 08:54

I agree with specky. Check yoUr cables again. There a pretty common problem area. Worse case scenario is that the selector pin on the fork has either fallen out or the diff wasn't shinned or spaced prperly and is binding the gears.

Nice screen name BTW. I'm usually in or around SF if you want a helping hand.
Last edited by lotusgirlmarie on Sat 10.04.2010, 09:01, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Gearbox stuck in 2nd

Postby HJ2 » Sat 10.04.2010, 08:59

I agree, :goodposting:

My cables looked absolutely fine but i experienced similar problems.
read the rest here:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=14821
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Re: Gearbox stuck in 2nd

Postby lotusguymichael » Fri 16.04.2010, 00:13

Thanks for the input everyone. I will get a chance to work on the car this weekend and hopefully find one of these solutions. The thought of having to drop the gearbox again, :censored: well i'll just leave it at that. I'll post my results. Thanks again to all! ;-)

Michael
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Re: Gearbox stuck in 2nd

Postby Steve A » Fri 16.04.2010, 09:17

If you disconnect the cables from the selector and then try and select gears with the selector
it will eliminate the cables.
If you can't get gears with the selector remove it and try and get gears with a screw driver.
Good luck
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Re: Gearbox stuck in 2nd

Postby lotusguymichael » Fri 16.04.2010, 19:40

Steve A wrote:If you disconnect the cables from the selector and then try and select gears with the selector
it will eliminate the cables.
If you can't get gears with the selector remove it and try and get gears with a screw driver.
Good luck


I did this about 4 weeks ago when I was last able to work on the car. I think I am going to try it again just to rule out all possibility of a cable or selector malfunction. As I mentioned earlier I was able to get back to neutral by removing the selector box and shifting the rails with a screwdriver, but when reassembled the action went from the original no 3rd or 4th, to locked into 2nd. Anyway, Saturday, I will be able to put some concentrated effort in on solving this problem.

Thanks Steve for the input! :wink:
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Re: Gearbox stuck in 2nd

Postby lotusguymichael » Mon 19.04.2010, 19:51

I unbolted the selector box and found the shift rails in the 2nd gear position, and the selector finger in the neutral area. The only way I can see this happening is that one of the interlock pins is missing, or part of a shift rail or the trans case itself is damaged. I am betting on the 3rd/4th interlock pin, based on not being able to select those two gears.

When the trans is locked in 2nd gear, with the gear lever in neutral, I can shift into either 5th or Rev, resulting in a locked transmission. The shift interlock pin assembly at the end of the shift rails should prevent this from being possible. When I had the Quaiff differential installed, the interlock pin assembly would have been vulnerable to disruption.

I guess this means its time to bite the bullet and pull the trans again, and then see if I can get the missing interlock pin to return the system to proper function. Maybe the pin dropped into the trans during reassembly, I don't know.

Any other input? Anybody? :|

I am still wondering what the outcome was for,

"ektrolleyboy"

on the "gearbox problems" post next to this one. The symptoms seem identical.

Michael
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2018 Ford Focus RS3 Edition Nitrous Blue
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Re: Gearbox stuck in 2nd

Postby nutsnbolts » Wed 05.08.2015, 18:10

Hi Michael,

I am having a similar problem with my GB, I just had it rebuilt a couple of months ago and ever since, I have been having shift lock issues. I suspect that the interlock pins where missed or forgotten during reassembly.

Are you able to advise where you purchased the replacement interlock pins?

James
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Re: Gearbox stuck in 2nd

Postby lotusguymichael » Wed 12.08.2015, 23:06

Hi James...

Sorry to hear You are having similar problems. I started this post a few years ago, but only last month pulled the gear box to get to the source of the problem. I separated the casings, and found the problem just as I suspected. The interlock pin between the 1st/2nd selector shaft, and the 3rd/4th selector shaft was missing! This caused the 3d/4th lock pin to jam up its own shaft from selecting those gears. I pulled all of the selector shafts out of their respective bores in the clutch/differential side of the transmission casing. At the bottom of the 3rd/4th selector shaft bore, was the missing interlock pin. Who ever swapped out my differential, and put in the Quaife Limited Slip, for what ever reason, was not diligent in making sure all of the pins were in their respective locations. What is interesting about this mistake, is that when the transmission is out of the car, you can sometimes shift it through all the gears. This is because, out of the car, the angle of the lock pin gallery causes the 3rd/4th lock pin to fall back to its normal position inside its shaft. In the car, the angle of the gallery causes the pin to jam. Dave Bean Engineering Inc. still has some of these pins, or You can check with Mark at El Grove Isuzu, (info below). Hopefully, the pins on Your transmission will all be there, like mine were.

http://www.davebean.com
phone: (209)754-5802
fax: (209)754-5177

I decided to replace all of my synchro rings while I had the box open. Its not too big of a job if you have a 12 ton press, and the DTSBK194AWS rebuild kit from Drivetrain.com. Here is the link...

http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catalog ... 3_mk7.html

I took some pictures of what I did on this project. They are okay and I can post them if anyone is interested. I found a site with better pictures of a GM/Isuzu MJ1 transmission, which is almost identical to our transmission for all the important parts inside the case. Here is the link to that...

http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f ... 41&t=47066

Picture #18 shows the exact pin in the location between 1st/2nd and 3rd/4th selector shaft bores where mine should have been. I found mine at the bottom of the bore to the right of where the pin is in that picture.

I was also able to source the 5th gear input/output shaft nuts and some other clips for the 5th/reverse selector shaft assembly. Here is the contact info for that. This is actually an Audi dealership in Elk Grove, South of Sacramento CA. They still have access to some Isuzu parts. call them and ask for "Mark"...

Dealer Name:
ELK GROVE ISUZU (ask for Mark about Isuzu parts)
Phone: 916-421-9267
Contact Email: erins@elkgrovevw.com

Here is some further information to supplement the transmission section of the M100 manual...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/131 ... sembly.pdf
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/131 ... sembly.pdf
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/131 ... 0Specs.pdf

I hope this helps anyone considering doing their own work on this transmission.

Michael
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2018 Ford Focus RS3 Edition Nitrous Blue
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Re: Gearbox stuck in 2nd

Postby nutsnbolts » Thu 13.08.2015, 17:39

Thanks Michael,

Your response have been very helpful many thanks.

James
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Re: Gearbox stuck in 2nd

Postby HJ2 » Fri 14.08.2015, 09:19

Hi Michael,

I love the pictures you made during the process. It makes me want to start on my gearbox as well again.
It would be an asset to have these photo's on LEC or perhaps even the wiki! :D
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Re: Gearbox stuck in 2nd

Postby lotusguymichael » Sun 16.08.2015, 07:01

Thanks James and HJ2.

The pictures actually came from a Forum called, j-body.org at, http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f ... 41&t=47066 , posted by one of their members who's screen name is "Transporter7220". The pictures are definitely helpful. I did take pictures of my own gearbox being disassembled, but the pictures taken by Transporter7220 were much better with great lighting etc. I don't know if there would be issues for Transporter7220 in posting these photos on LEC or the WIKI, but I agree, they would be most helpful in assisting anyone wondering if they should tackle this project. The manual was actually very helpful on this project for me. It is not as bad as it looks getting into this, I mean, somebody built it to begin with. Right?
1991 FED Elan Norfolk Mustard Yellow
2018 Ford Focus RS3 Edition Nitrous Blue
Why worry? Each of us is wearing an unlicensed nuclear accelerator on his back. Yep. Lets get ready. Switch me on.
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Re: Gearbox stuck in 2nd

Postby HJ2 » Sun 16.08.2015, 09:23

Haha!

That's what I say every time I need to tackle a true new technical challenge! :clap:
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