Gear selector cable gone!

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Gear selector cable gone!

Postby KevB » Wed 26.02.2014, 14:23

I stopped to fill up at a petrol station, filled up, started up but couldn't select a gear...floppy gear stick :(
RACed home.

On the advice of BCN I removed the centre console to see if there was a problem at the stick end but both cables where attached, although the Fore/Aft had no resistance, but the cross gate did.

Gearbox end: Moved some stuff out of the way and got somebody to move the shift lever, Crossgate was connected and moving fine, but the Fore/Aft seems to have come disconnected, it looks like a type of crimp onto a bifurcated spigot. see pic:
Fore Aft spigot 2-processed.jpg


Is this fixable?...seem like a very small bearing surface if I was to compress the crimp onto the spigot?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Many Thanks
Kevin
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Re: Gear selector cable gone!

Postby tb10 » Wed 26.02.2014, 14:39

Hi Kevin,

This thread may help. The first photo is what the connection should look like.

regards

John
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Re: Gear selector cable gone!

Postby dapinky » Wed 26.02.2014, 14:59

Hi Kev,

My first thought is that it is fixable, but a bit of hassle involved - a new cable is the best fix.....

...that said, If it were me, and the actual cable bit is working well, the broken bit is mendable (as it's the metal end of the cable fixing which is broken).

I'd probably be looking to shorten the metal fixing on the cable by an inch or so, then using a suitable die, cut a male thread onto the bar (or welding a length of threaded bar to it).

Then remove the broken bit of the selector 'ring' and weld another length of threaded bar where the broken bit is.

Then use a suitable female threaded sleeve to join the 2 bits together.

It would take a bit of accurate measuring, but seems possible - access is the key issue and it may need the cable to come out to get to it well enough to do it all, in which case, a replacement cable would be a lot less trouble - although just removing it at the lever end may allow enough to be pulled into the engine bay to work with (but attach a bit of wire or string to pull it back again!)
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it

go on - click this link - you know you want to!
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Re: Gear selector cable gone!

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Wed 26.02.2014, 15:05

Kev: It looks like you had a set of A-B Cables. They sold quite a few cable sets a until a couple of years ago and then just disappeared (after the flooding in Asia).

The original pieces were crimped together but it looks like your cable broke just past the crimp. There is a lot of plastic/teflon involved in the cable, so the cable probably won't survive welding the pieces together. If you could find a way to remove the original crimp and get someone to make and then crimp on a new hoop so the cable length isn't changed, that might get you sorted for a while, but I suspect the other ends are also getting tired. The final length of the cable is also fairly critical, so if you end up more than around 1/2 an inch shorter, the cable probably won't be adjustible.

Bob made up a special adapter for daveiow but it required forcing a thread on the remaining stalk which needed to end up at 6mm and then he put a rod end on it but it was basically a bodge and I never heard how it worked out.

When things get to the point they are for your cable, it is best to replace it. Unfortunately, Lotus, Bob B. and I have gone a different direction with the newer designs, so you will have to replace both cables and the abutment plate at the gearbox. Sorry mate, but the old design just wasn't easy to duplicate and the cost to do it was too high.

Maybe someone will offer you a used cable and that will get you back on the road for a while.

I do have a set of cables in stock that could be shipped in a couple of days (I install them before packing them to get the adjustments close and so you don't hace to assemble a pile of adapters and guess where to start from). Shipping to you would take around 7 business days or for $10.00 more, there is "Express" shipping but that only reduced the time to 5 days.

Sorry...
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Re: Gear selector cable gone!

Postby daveiow » Wed 26.02.2014, 16:19

John
BB didn't make anything up for me, when funds allow I'm coming to you for cables and SS kit :D

daveiow :m100:
"live long and prosper"
Calypso Red 91se. Hispecs,PNM rear calipers,Samco's & BCN cables & SSK so far!(oh and a new hood and paint) sold
Evora n/a
Alfa Sud 1.5ti long gone!
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Re: Gear selector cable gone!

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Wed 26.02.2014, 16:25

Sorry, I thought I had read that somewhere. Maybe it was for someone else.
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Re: Gear selector cable gone!

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Wed 26.02.2014, 16:28

Kev: I dug out a picture of a set of A-B Cables and they didn't attach the hoop for the FA cable like your picture, so maybe you have a pair of S2 cables? I never looked under the boot on the SE cables to see how the bits are assembled, so I will look at those later today too. It is interesting to see different cables with different construction.
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Re: Gear selector cable gone!

Postby KevB » Fri 28.02.2014, 09:06

Thanks to all, for those helpful post's.

I had another look at it yesterday, to try and see if I could do a temporary repair, and it may be possible but it will have have to come out of the car to do it properly and it will have to wait till Sunday to try.

My other problem is that this wasn't budgeted for :( as all my upgrades where going to be done on a safety first basis!...1) Being Hispec/PNM front calipers and discs (which is why I have bought the S2 BBS wheels) 2) Roll bars of some description. etc etc and BCN's Cable upgrade with Short Shift slightly further down the list (but not too far :-D)

S0, although I think you guys are right, saying that the best way and safest way forward would be to just get (John's) new cables, In the interests of making some attempt to save my budget! I will take the cable out and see what I can do.

John, would it be slightly less expensive for me to purchase the cables in the UK and for you to supply the fixing kit? (I can always get the Short Shift later)

Regards
Kevin
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Re: Gear selector cable gone!

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Fri 28.02.2014, 15:45

Kev: I have been assembling the ends on the cables using a "jig" I built to get them close and then I install them an an actual car to make sure the adjustments are close.
I do this to try to prevent everyone from having to assemble, install, uninstall, readjust, install and so forth which is a real pain. See epipete's saga starting around here:
http://forum.lotuselancentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=22784&p=289818#p289524.
Pete also had to buy a replacement cable for his used set of Bob's cables and it cost him £71.74 plus VAT plus carriage (£15.00). So total of £101.09.

If my math is correct, the cost for my cable kit is around £300.00 ($494.00) including Priority Postage, so I don't think it will save you any money as just the kit of parts is probably close to £150.00 with Priority Shipping.

I have a set of cables in stock and can assemble and install them over the weekend so they could be posted on Monday. $494.00 (£300.00 ish) is enough to pay for the cables and Priority Mail which should get them to you in 6 to 10 business days if not held up by customs. For around £10.00 more, there is Express Priority Shipping that quotes 3 to 5 business days except for UK customs that seems to like to hold things up (I shipped a set of cables this way a while ago and UK customs held the cables for 3 additional days).

I planned on installing the cable over the weekend anyway, so I will be doing that today and tomorrow and planned on leaving the gearbox end adjustment alone until I knew if they were connecting to the gearbox directly or to a short shift kit. If you decide to order the cables, I know I can ship them on Monday and actually, if you order today, I can probably ship them tomorrow which will get them to you a little bit faster.

Please remember the prices are based on a "personal, friend and family" payment which is the least costly based on PayPal fees to both of us.
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Re: Gear selector cable gone!

Postby KevB » Fri 28.02.2014, 17:03

John,

I have just had a bit of good fortune!!...I bought this car just before Christmas from James Webb at the South West Lotus Centre and it came with a six months warranty.
I emailed him just to check if the cables where covered under warranty and he said no, that would be Fair Wear and Tear (which I agree) but as a gesture of good will he was prepared to send me a new pair of S2 cables with the bracket to fit the SE car. So hopefully I could be back on the road fairly quickly, although fitting the new cables could be a steep learning curve from what I have been reading on the forum.

Thank you for being prepared to speed up your assembling schedule, much appreciated.

So, with my budget intact, I can carry on with the planned upgrades.

I will be back on this thread sometime soon for help on installing the new cables...I will check to see if the new cables are the same type as the ones I have installed at the moment.

Regards
Kevin
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Re: Gear selector cable gone!

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Fri 28.02.2014, 17:14

Very good fortune indeed. Best of luck.
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Re: Gear selector cable gone!

Postby KevB » Mon 31.03.2014, 15:33

Update:
I received 2 new cables but they where slightly different, one was s typical S2 (fore/aft), and the other (apparently) was a "improved" S2 cable (crossgate), although at the time it looked a bit strange as when measured the fittings that go into the bracketry where under size by about 2-3mm creating, I thought a potential problem, so I sent that one back along with the new S2 bracket as I already had S2 cables and bracket installed... one phone call later from SWL to say that, that was the only crossgate cable type you could get...so back came the cable and I made an attempt to fit it. T he normal S2 fore/aft was fine but the "improved" S2 crossgate was loose at the brackets but also It seem to be short of the pin at he gearbox lever when the pin was furthest away (1st & 2nd). By this time I had, had the cables in & out a quite a few times, so, pissed off, I bought a pair from SJS who have now sourced their own heavy duty cables, although I don't think they are of the quality that BCNs are, they do serve a price point.

Anyway to shorten the long, these where fitted but to my dismay I have the same problem, the crossgate cable eye is short of the pin when the lever is furthest away (1st & 2nd) and I have run out of adjustment at the abutment bracket..fine in 3rd & 4th and fine in 5th and Reverse... any suggestions before i CUT MY THROAT :banghead:

Kevin
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Re: Gear selector cable gone!

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Mon 31.03.2014, 15:57

You will need to post some pictures since the cables should be a direct replacement and not short (beyond normal adjustment).

I don't see any other adjustment by looking at their blurred picture. What does their installation guide suggest?

It sounds like they got their dimensions wrong? Are you using THEIR abutment bracket?

I still have pre-fit cable kits ready to ship. I am sorry about the cost of shipping, but that is out of my control.
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Re: Gear selector cable gone!

Postby KevB » Mon 31.03.2014, 20:52

John, Thanks for helping...I am sure that SJS would not sell a product they hadn't tested and made sure that it worked, so the only other alternative is that I have done something wrong through inexperience or just plain stupidity!...which is the most likely explanation :oops:.

OK, pictures first:

Complete CrossGate Cable
Complete cable.JPG


Eye at the Gearbox with some adjustment
Gearbox Eye.JPG


GearBox Abutment Adjustment
Gearbox Abutm't Adjustm't.JPG


Adjustment at Shiftlever Assembly Bracket
Shifter Bracket Adjustm't.JPG


Eye at the Shift Lever with some adjustment
Shifter Eye Adjustm't.JPG


They don't supply a guide, so I have been using parts of yours and parts of Lotus.
I asked about the abutment bracket and they said it was the S2 one, so I could use my Existing one,...I will ask them again about that.

What I have done starting from the Shift Lever:
No adjust meant at the eye, the eye screwed up tight to the rod end
At the Assembly bracket, at first I had about 6mm of thread proud on the leverside but found I could not get the assembly in to the Chassis hole as the eye was jamming on the hole, so I reduced the thread showing till it was flush, the assembly then went through.
At the Abutment bracket I had no thread showing on the shift lever side as that was how the original cable was...which meant that right from the start there was no adjustmeant at that point.
At the CrossGate pin I adjusted the eye to make the rod/eye longer by approx 4mm, any more and it would not be safe as there is not much more thread available.

So with those settings I find that with the Crossgate lever at it's max distance away from the abutment bracket, i.e. in 1st or 2nd gear, the eye is short of the pin.

Short Cable.JPG


So, if I attach the eye with the gear lever in 3rd I cannot move the shift lever into 1st or 2nd...so 5th & Reverse is fine as is 3rd & 4th

I am hoping you can tell me what a blind bat I am and that the answer is really simple and it's just my limited intelligence that stopping me from completing this cable swop!! :bonk:

Many Thanks, Kevin
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Re: Gear selector cable gone!

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Mon 31.03.2014, 21:33

OK, but I need to make at least ONE comment: There are NO bushings or BEARINGS at the ends!!!!! No wonder they as so much cheaper. The AB cables were bad enough with bushings that were a little bit tight and because they didn't use a spherical bearing, the vertical mis-alignment caused a lot of drag which inhibited the self-centering capabilities of the shifter. Without redesigning the abutment bracket, the lotus designed mis-allignment is still there.

NOW: READ THIS A FEW TIMES BEFORE STARTING. ASK if you have any questions. I used your location names in my reply so hopefully you will know what parts I am talking about.

You need to make the crossgate cable LONGER. Do this by adjusting the OUTER jacket/housing at the Shiftlever Assembly Bracket as far as you can toward the shifter lever (rear of the car). You are basically shortening the outer housing. DON'T FORGET to tighten the jam nuts. I know you said you went the other way to get the shifter into the body, but hold the gearlever fully into 2nd gear and the parts should line up while installing the shift lever assembly.

Now, while counting turns, thread the eyelet as far onto the rod as you can and then unwind it until it comes off. Reinstall it on the rod 50% of the number of turns. This should be safe. Your goal is to gain at least 50% of the additional length at the shifter end. DON'T FORGET to tighten the jam nuts.

It is possible that I will have advised you to OVER-adjust the shifter end so, before installing the cables, make sure you can put the shift lever in all of the correct positions once you have adjusted that end. If you find that you can't go all the way to the right with the crossgate, you will need to adjust the eyelet and bulkhead until you can get full travel in both directions.

Reassemble everything. I recommend that you center both cables at the abutment so you will have a bit of adjustment for the final shifter position. You will need to adjust the Eye at the Gearbox outward if it still doesn't line up.

Make sure you have MORE length than just lining it up so you don't have to worry about not getting completely into gear after things get warm while driving:

Hold the bellcrank all the way up (away)and make sure the eyelet will stretch that far. Go one thread more. Double check that you can now get into 5/R with the same amount of over-throw. The last thing you want is for the cable to run out of travel before the synchro slider is fully over the baulk ring and actual gear. It won't take long to destroy the gearbox if that happens.

Test shift through the gears with the shift lever. The factory suggestion is to align the shifter while the gearbox is in 3rd gear. (crossgate in center and fore-aft is down or toward the gearbox). Loosen the jam nuts at the abutment bracket and slide the cable left or right to get as close to your desired position that you can. DON'T FORGET to tighten the jam nuts.

Don't be surprised if your shift lever doesn't go back to center when you drop into neutral. They have increased the potential for the eyelet to drag on the bellcrank and the pin. YOU WANT TO PUT SOME REALLY GOOD GREASE ON ALL OF THE PIVOTS.
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Re: Gear selector cable gone!

Postby KevB » Mon 31.03.2014, 22:08

You are quite right about the quality of the end fittings and I will be getting new pins for the gearbox levers as they are worn.
I will talk to SJS to make sure about the Abutment bracket and ask if they do have some sort of guide or any suggestions about fitting.

I won't be able to tackle this till Wed or Thurs so will let you know How it goes.

Many Thanks for your help.
Kevin
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Re: Gear selector cable gone!

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Mon 31.03.2014, 22:17

I don't mean to poke at you but none of this would have happened with a well engineered, pre-installed and tested cable set.

I spent almost 6 months designing and re-designing my kit before finally offering it and I built it to the standard I expected to find if I bought from someone else. I still have a set of A-B cables in my car but I had to cut, grind and fit everything to be finally happy with the shifting. I paid over $500.00 for my A-B cables back in 2008! If you are keeping the car, the SJS cables are really not an improvement in any way except cost. They will wear out the pins and your wrist over time.

I hope you figure it out.
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Re: Gear selector cable gone!

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Wed 09.04.2014, 14:37

Any progress to report?
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Re: Gear selector cable gone!

Postby KevB » Thu 10.04.2014, 13:31

I wish!...The Tax man is taking up all my spare time at the moment!!

I did have a quick try and managed to get the eye on, but their was no slack left, just need to get a little bit more.

Now back to my accounts!!

Kevin
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Re: Gear selector cable gone!

Postby KevB » Tue 22.04.2014, 15:29

OK, Taxman out of the way.
This weekend I managed to get some progress, using BCNs directions to unscrew the eye at the gear lever end to increase length and adjusting the bracket, I found I could not get the shifter assembly into the hole...1/2" too long, so I took the eye off the pin and got the assembly into the chassis hole & using micro surgery techniques managed to get the eye back on the pin (but not the R clip) and fixed the assembly down. At the gearbox end I adjusted the eye out and managed to get the eye on the pin as I mentioned previously, but there was no "spare" adjustment to be gained, so fed up at this point, I went another route.
I screwed a 6mm to 8mm female adapter on the end of the rod (with locknut) & on the end of that a 8mm male Rosejoint, this lengthened the rod sufficiently to get the Rosejoint eye on to the pin, using two misalignment washers and a longer crossgate pin (used a fore/aft pin) this all went together brilliantly, giving me plenty of adjustment to play with, I could get all gears without any straining or crunching and i still had adjustment at the abutment bracket to play around with the gear lever position.

so the engine bay has been put back together, the centre console is next to do, then test drive time...after charging the flat battery!

I spoke to Steve at SJs mentioning the problems I had been having and asking if he had any "fitting notes" for these cables, He said no and also his own engineers had never fitted any so they had no comment to make, but he had sold 9 cables sets and I was the only one having any problems, but there was obviously a "design process" to assess the cables.

If anyone has bought and fitted these cables i would be grateful if they could PM or email me to discuss how they got on with them, obviously my lack of experience with this car and no knowledge at all with Gear cables has been a factor in this frustrating battle and I would appreciate any insight however small.

Regards Kevin
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