CV Gaiters

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CV Gaiters

Postby rdodger » Fri 22.05.2015, 20:38

Hi

Can anyone tell me the part numbers and supplier of CV gaiters?

Inner is split so might as well do both and will need a new nut.

They seem different inner and outer but have read you can use Elise ones?

Cheers
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Re: CV Gaiters

Postby dapinky » Fri 22.05.2015, 21:45

As you say, the Elise ones are talked about (possibly by me!) - see this post.

Other people have also purchased from them and I'm unaware of anyone ever having a problem.
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Re: CV Gaiters

Postby rdodger » Fri 22.05.2015, 22:03

Thanks

Did you use the same inner and outer? SJ Sports cars list separate part numbers.
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Re: CV Gaiters

Postby dapinky » Fri 22.05.2015, 22:13

The same one fits the inner and outer - it is a bit of a 'Universal' item, and on one of the joints (but I can't remember if it was the inner or the outer) it fitted better with one of the convoluted steps removed (shortening the boot a bit).
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Re: CV Gaiters

Postby madbilly » Sat 14.11.2015, 14:39

Bonjour tout le monde,

It's a long time since I've had chance to read the forums and I've lost touch with a lot of what's going on Elan-wise, but necessity compels me to make contact once again - a split outer CV boot and green gunge EVERYWHERE!

If I was in the UK I probably wouldn't both posting and would just buy the parts, but as I think I'll need to get parts shipped from the UK I want to make sure I order the right stuff before paying the high cost of shipping. So:
  • Dave, you said in the post you link above that the hub nut needs to be replaced. The service manual doesn't mention this but I guess it's because it's a brass part, is that right?
  • Does anyone know a compatible part number for the boot that I might be able to find in France? (I saw a Renault part listed but it wasn't clear if this was for the inner or outer boot, and also a GKN part mentioned but I couldn't find the number)
  • Otherwise options for parts are the universal kit from J&R, SJ's alternative part, or factory order Lotus parts. I think I've discounted the Lotus parts as too expensive, because I read elsewhere that they deteriorate rapidly because they're 25 years old, and because I'll have to faff around ordering them from a Lotus dealer here in France.
  • I need to get a ball-joint splitter and after looking at the problem something like this seems suitable. (I thought about the chisel type, too). Any words of caution?

Thanks in anticipation of all the excellent help the forum members usually give.

Cheers,
Will
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Re: CV Gaiters

Postby dapinky » Sat 14.11.2015, 15:53

Hi Billy,

glad you're all good 'En France'.

The nut needs to be replaced because it has to be peened over to keep it in place, and when you undo it, it will weaken the part which moulds into the cut out bit in the end of the driveshaft. I suppose that it *could* be reused, but as they're only £2 I don't see the point in risking it. (You can get them in France - it's the same as used in Citroen/Peugeot cars - but I don't know exactly which ones!).

The ball joint splitter to mention may not fit onto the bottom ball joint very well - I have both types, and always use the 'split chisel' type for the elan. If you do that though, you may damage the rubber boot on the ball joint - cheap and easy to replace, so I don't worry about it.
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Re: CV Gaiters

Postby Simon_P » Sat 14.11.2015, 20:21

You don't need to split the ball joint.
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Re: CV Gaiters

Postby dapinky » Sat 14.11.2015, 20:53

Simon_P wrote:You don't need to split the ball joint.


Unless the bolts which go through the top wishbone ball joint are rusted in situ (but I always find it easiest to split the bottom balljoint and swing the hub upwards)...

....but seriously, as Simon says, it can be done without - you just need to decide which bits are easier for you to dismantle to get the hub to seperate from the driveshaft.
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Re: CV Gaiters

Postby madbilly » Sun 15.11.2015, 11:18

Thanks for the advice both. I assumed there'd be more than one way to skin this cat when I read the manual saying release the top ball joint, wikiLEC saying release the bottom one, etc. I need a ball joint splitter anyway so I might as well get one that works on the Elan!

Any suggestions for alternative part numbers? I'm getting shipping quotes from J&R and SJ's anyway.
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Re: CV Gaiters

Postby dapinky » Sun 15.11.2015, 11:54

Billy,

J&R sell their kits on ebay using the seller name of j_r2006 - and they list postage options worldwide. (prices are the same as going direct, not over-inflated for fleabay).

Edit-

If you go to this link it will show you the boot, clips, grease & hub nut for £5.49 + £3.49 P&P to France.
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Re: CV Gaiters

Postby madbilly » Sun 21.02.2016, 19:37

Now then, I've had trouble finding various bits and bats since we moved here but would you believe that finding reasonably priced CV joint boots was easier than getting a reasonable priced ball-joint splitter?! I got the J&R boots and fitting cone but the only ball-join splitter I could find in Manosque (not a large town but the largest for many miles) cost €100! In the end I mail-ordered from Norauto (French equivalent of Halfords).

Anyway, having finally got everything I thought I needed for this job I realised I'd overlooked something essential - removal of the driveshaft hub nut! I read in another post the socket size needed is 32mm, is that right? Any tips on how to "unpeen" the nut without destroying screwdrivers? I don't have a grinder but if that's the best method I guess I'll get one.

Cheers :)
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Re: CV Gaiters

Postby dapinky » Sun 21.02.2016, 20:02

Billy,

The hub nut is indeed 32mm - but they make a specialist socket for the fittings, as *some* standard 32mm sockets are too thin in the walls and will break due to the high torque settings on the nut..... (but any 6-point impact socket that's deep enough to go fully on should do the job - some socket sets only have fairly shallow 12-point sockets in them - and not all go up to 32mm)

.... something like these

If you have a friendly local garage it may be worth just asking if they will crack the nut off for you, and then torque up the new one when fitted.

As for unpeening the old nut, the metal isn't usually too hard to bend - any chisel should do the job, or even just a metal bar (drift). I usually just use either a cold chisel (which is my 'ball-joint splitter'!), or an old screwdriver.
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Re: CV Gaiters

Postby Simon_P » Sun 21.02.2016, 20:07

Yes I would believe it, the tripode joint is a French invention.

Unpeen with a suitable punch. You don't need to be exact the CV joint is much harder than the soft nut.
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Re: CV Gaiters

Postby lotusflasherman » Sun 21.02.2016, 23:12

dapinky wrote:
As for unpeening the old nut, the metal isn't usually too hard to bend - any chisel should do the job, or even just a metal bar (drift). I usually just use either a cold chisel (which is my 'ball-joint splitter'!), or an old screwdriver.


My toolbox has an old centrepunch with specially ground flats to form a bit of a chisel end. Makes that job very easy. Position in the keyway at about 45°, Bang with a clubhammer, job done! :-D
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Re: CV Gaiters

Postby madbilly » Mon 22.02.2016, 21:04

Thanks for the top tips! You reminded me that I've got some punches so I'll have a go with those for unpeening the nut. I'll ask around at work if anyone's got a suitable driver and socket I can use.
Cheers!
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Re: CV Gaiters

Postby madbilly » Mon 28.03.2016, 16:34

Driveshaft nut eventually came off with about 700lbft on it (me on a 4ft metal bar). A loud crack had me swearing that the socket had split but for once nothing had broken and the nut had come free, hooray!

Unfortunately I now can't get either top or bottom ball joint undone. Part numbers refer to this diagram.

I can't get enough purchase on the bottom ball-joint nut (no. 10) and I think it's beginning to round off - my 19mm spanners seem slightly too large, and there's not enough room to get an adjustable on it (I think it would slip anyway). Too much rust I think. The top ball-joint nut (no. 9) is similar, 19mm is too loose and 18 won't fit, also starting to round off.

Anyway, the top ball-joint front bolt (no.20) seems to be seized. With a 1/2" socket and a long bar I can get some movement, but the other end doesn't seem to turn, so I assume that I'm twisting the shaft of the bolt....argh!

I've had a read through this thread with my heart sinking about the possible work I'll have to do just to replace the blooming CV joint boot!

Is there any quick and easy way to do this that I've missed? I don't mind have the bloody obvious being pointed out, I'm past worrying about pride in my mechanical aptitude!

Hmmm, too many sentences/paragraphs ending in an exclamation mark, it's time for a cup of tea and Easter egg :D
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Re: CV Gaiters

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Mon 28.03.2016, 17:01

Billy: You need to get a decent set of 6 point open-end/box end wrenches and 1/2" (13mm) drive sockets. I am pretty sure the nuts you mention ARE normal metric sizes.

You could try to disconnect the top ball joint from the upper wishbone arms, but the bolts are probably rusted into the holes in the ball joint and you won't be able to remove them either. Loosen the nuts and try to turn the bolts. IF they turn, then you can disconnect the top ball joint that way.

If you try that, remember to keep track of how many shims are on either side of the upper ball joint.

For a short-term solution, you could consider buying a 2-part or split CV Gaiter that slips around the CV without having to take everything apart. The split seam is glued together after getting it around the CV Joint. You will need to clean the rubber extensively before gluing it as grease prevents the glue from sticking. Once glued, you need to inject CV grease into the cavity before securing it in place.

Since I am in the US, I can't suggest a source for split boots, but someone on your side of the pond will surely jump in with a suggestion.
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Re: CV Gaiters

Postby dapinky » Mon 28.03.2016, 18:33

Billy,

19mm is the right size spanner - but if they seem too big, then they are probably worn - a 3/4" is very similar (actually a tad larger) but may fit better due to tollerances in manufacture and wear.

The problem with the lower balljoint nut is a combination of the nut being 'hidden' by a recess in the hub upright which has the duel effect of not letting you get onto it very well, but also collecting water/mud/grime which helps to glue it all together.

You may need to (very slow, boring and dull job) clean as much dirt and rust from the exposed thread as you can get to, all the way round. Then try to remove the nylon bit of the nylock nut (localised heat is a good way, followed by fishing the melted goo out with a small pick), then cleaning the thread again....

.....this will convert it to a non-locked nut, so should turn easier.

It may even be necessary (or worthwhile) to use a dremmel to cut away a small portion of the top of the nut (only 1mm or less, and not down to the flats where you put the spanner).

I use an open-ended spanner to do the job, and have not had any great problems. If it is difficult to undo, then you will get better grip using a ring spanner, or socket.

The best grip to the nut will be using a 6-sided socket, which acts on the walls of the nut, not the 'points', but you may not have enough clearence to get a socket on with the driveshaft fitted.

It sounds like the bolts through the upper balljoint are seized in the joint - the only real answer is to source new upper balljoints/bolts, then remove the heads of the current bolts with a grinder to slip the arms off the balljoints (noting the position of the Camber plates, and Caster shims).

If you can't get new balljoints at the moment, then the only real way (if you can't undo the nut), is to remove the whole wishbones at the inner pivot - but again, a correct spanner and a bit of heat on the nut, should get it undone.

Good luck.
Dave

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Re: CV Gaiters

Postby lotusflasherman » Mon 28.03.2016, 19:46

Brit-Car-Nut wrote:Billy: You need to get a decent set of 6 point open-end/box end wrenches and 1/2" (13mm) drive sockets. I am pretty sure the nuts you mention ARE normal metric sizes.


:agree: 11/16" is 17.46mm (too small) and 3/4" is 19.05mm (too big). Only Imperial size between 19mm & 18mm will be 23/32" (18.256mm) but don't think even Mr Whitworth ever used that. Motor Industry certainly didn't.. :lol:

Ideally you should get face loading hex sockets* - they don't round off corners. I prefer 3/8" drive for most things but 1/2" is better for stubborn stuff. Bottom balljoint nut - I found only crowsfoot would get to it.

sockets.jpg


Edit: * When I bought mine they were called 'face loading' but now seem to be called 'walldrive' sockets. (Capacitors were called Condensers then as well .. :lol: ).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: CV Gaiters

Postby madbilly » Tue 29.03.2016, 19:00

Hi everyone, thanks for all the superfast replies - I guess it was raining yesterday?! Lots of sage advice, I appreciate the hints and tips.

Summary of the situation: I've removed the shims and all nuts and bolts on the top ball-joint except for no. 9 and 20, and the bottom ball-joint nut no. 10. No. 20 won't turn and nos. 9 and 10 the wrench slips off. There's not enough clearance on nuts 9 and 10 to get a socket on, only spanners.

My shopping list is, and order of options is:
  • Crowsfoot spanners for nuts 9 & 10 and a walldrive socket for nut 20. A 23/32" spanner would be great but yes, I already decided such a thing does not exist!
  • Blowtorch
  • Grinder

I'm also going to have to buy new nuts and bolts, I don't really want to put these back on if they come off in one piece. In case I need new ball-joints I haven't worked out how to easily get Lotus parts here, there are dealers but at least an hour's drive away. In my experience phone calls are difficult and emails are unreliable.

I'm not sure about the split gaiter option, I think I'd rather give in, put everything back together and take it to my local garage. This is only urgent because the weather's good here now and I want to go for a drive!

Slightly off-topic, all the shims were on the front side of the ball-joint, and the camber cams (old car) on each side were not in exactly the same positions. Odd?
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